British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Bipat Feb 21st 2017 9:04 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12185455)
Which would India prefer, a deal with 27 nations, 600million consuners or 1 nation 63million consumers and an economy slipping down the world league.
A country that has taken a decision that could put at risk Induan companies investments.
Companies who could lose free access to existing EU markets.
Ask any businessman who they would chose?

They will prefer what is best for them, 9 years of failure with negotiations with the EU, and now EU trying to out do the UK, see the link.

From your side, I do not think Mrs May made a good impression when she came here, Cameron had much better relationship with the PM. She could have been more diplomatic in her dealings.

However as I said 'unofficial' talks have been going on for months. In the beginning London-Indian business men stated the words 'dream deal' about future trade with UK.
As with everything else we will wait and see.

(I have asked a few business people what they think, they differ in opinions. As those closest (as relatives) have German business partners, they are obviously more pro-EU.)

Red Eric Feb 21st 2017 9:04 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12185456)
.. the political elite in Brussels...

Who?

amideislas Feb 21st 2017 9:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12185461)
I didn't know it had been openly acknowledged that the left enthuse about "uncontrolled" immigration because they see an electoral advantage in it. Sounds distinctly wacky and fairly and squarely conspiracy theorist to me.

I was referring to "federal Europe", which has been an open aspiration since the beginning. Churchill himself openly championed it. There are disagreements about how far members states are willing to pursue that, but ultimately, Europe will need to become far more integrated, or suffer returning to a situation where each small country is left on its own to sink or swim. And most will sink. The "Freedom of movement" that Britain fears so much, is demonstrably an integral part of that integration, for obvious reasons.

EU founders understood that 20-x little countries, all in competition with each other, with no common goals, no common set of standards, no common defence, is highly counterproductive. Existing as a single unified entity demonstrably achieves something far beyond the sum of the parts. And that ultimately means precisely what Churchill envisioned. The United States is still an iconic reminder of that, warts and all.

Britain never intended to be a "province" of it, and probably never would be. And there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what Britain wants. But if Britain were wise, it should have seen the project all the way through, and rather than fearing it, should have enthusiastically championed a "federal Europe". That would have resulted in a monumentally more secure economic and political standing for Britain (and the whole of Europe) - as opposed to the abyss of uncertainty it faces now.

Red Eric Feb 21st 2017 9:28 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12185471)
I was referring to "federal Europe", which has been an open aspiration since the beginning.... (etc)

Glad you cleared that up. I sincerely doubted you'd have concurred with the rest of it - just making sure nobody else would think that of you either.

InVinoVeritas Feb 21st 2017 9:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
An interesting poll of British voters by Kantar Public:-

Despite preparations for Brexit increasingly dominating the political agenda ahead of the two-year withdrawal negotiations under Article 50 of the EU treaties, the issue was ranked tenth out of 10 policy areas in terms of importance, well behind healthcare, economic growth and social care for the elderly.

The public was split over hopes for the Brexit negotiations, with 31 per cent saying it was important to restrict migration from other EU countries and 30 per cent to reduce the role of the European courts in Britain’s judicial process, against 29 per cent who said the priority should be maintaining access to the single market.

Some 47 per cent said they expected Brexit to have had a positive impact on the UK in five years’ time, compared to 32 per cent who expect its impact to be negative.

Scamp Feb 21st 2017 9:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12185482)
An interesting poll of British voters by Kantar Public:-

Despite preparations for Brexit increasingly dominating the political agenda ahead of the two-year withdrawal negotiations under Article 50 of the EU treaties, the issue was ranked tenth out of 10 policy areas in terms of importance, well behind healthcare, economic growth and social care for the elderly.

The public was split over hopes for the Brexit negotiations, with 31 per cent saying it was important to restrict migration from other EU countries and 30 per cent to reduce the role of the European courts in Britain’s judicial process, against 29 per cent who said the priority should be maintaining access to the single market.

Some 47 per cent said they expected Brexit to have had a positive impact on the UK in five years’ time, compared to 32 per cent who expect its impact to be negative.

Great. So nobody now seems to even give a monkeys what happens. :blink:

Fredbargate Feb 21st 2017 9:41 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12184831)
Since when can a white Brit ea racist regarding our fellow white brits.
You can disagree with my views but racist no.

So your caustic comments made earlier about Gibraltar residents applied only to those of UK origin and not the thousands from elsewhere.

Perhaps that should have been made clearer at the time.

amideislas Feb 21st 2017 9:45 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12185468)
They will prefer what is best for them, 9 years of failure with negotiations with the EU, and now EU trying to out do the UK, see the link.

From your side, I do not think Mrs May made a good impression when she came here, Cameron had much better relationship with the PM. She could have been more diplomatic in her dealings.

However as I said 'unofficial' talks have been going on for months. In the beginning London-Indian business men stated the words 'dream deal' about future trade with UK.
As with everything else we will wait and see.

(I have asked a few business people what they think, they differ in opinions. As those closest (as relatives) have German business partners, they are obviously more pro-EU.)

Erm, the EU isn't trying to "out-do" the UK. Where do you get that notion? Why would the EU need to "out-do" the UK? In fact, the UK is struggling to find ways to make up for the losses it will incur, and will be consumed with that for the foreseeable future.

And any idea that the UK is going to "out-do" the EU is delusional at best. Britain needs to focus on keeping itself afloat now. Unfortunately, Britain is going to be consumed with Brexit for a decade or more. The EU on the other hand, is not, and does not need to consume itself with Brexit. There's more important things to focus on. And it will, because it has the resources and bandwidth to do so.

DaveLovesDee Feb 21st 2017 10:32 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12185468)
They will prefer what is best for them, 9 years of failure with negotiations with the EU, and now EU trying to out do the UK, see the link.

The EU doesn't need to out-do the UK, it already has done. The UK has negotiated more opt-outs and rebates than any other EU member, and still wanted more. Even then, the EU still offered most of what Cameron asked for, but it wasn't enough for Cameron, who then had to follow through with his election promise to hold a referendum on our EU membership.

The EU has out-done the UK simply by letting the UK quit, which means there's no incentive for the EU to make any furthewr concessions to the UK's interests during and post-Brexit, because the UK has never giving anything but aggravation back to the EU.

Consider it a divorce. One of the couple has given everything to the marriage, the other hasn't except for tantrums and hissy fits. But it's the latter who expects to get most of the assets at the settlement, and none of the liabilities.

9 years of failure with negotiations. I don't call it a failure, I call it 2 strong-willed parties and both lacking sufficient room to negotiate. That's understandable.


From your side, I do not think Mrs May made a good impression when she came here, Cameron had much better relationship with the PM. She could have been more diplomatic in her dealings.
When Mrs May was the Home Secretary, she was no different to how she is now. Did anyone expect any different.

She doesn't 'do' diplomatic, but if you want a tough job done and the person doesn't have to be a people-person, she's your lady.


However as I said 'unofficial' talks have been going on for months. In the beginning London-Indian business men stated the words 'dream deal' about future trade with UK.
Unofficial talks are a wishlist.


As with everything else we will wait and see.
Yes we will.

Bipat Feb 21st 2017 10:44 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12185518)


When Mrs May was the Home Secretary, she was no different to how she is now. Did anyone expect any different.

She doesn't 'do' diplomatic, but if you want a tough job done and the person doesn't have to be a people-person, she's your lady

Yes we will.

She managed to be 'different' with Donald Trump!

This was the first PM she visited after her own appointment, she could have tried a little harder!:lol:

DaveLovesDee Feb 21st 2017 10:54 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12185524)
She managed to be 'different' with Donald Trump!

This was the first PM she visited after her own appointment, she could have tried a little harder!:lol:

But did she though? Or was it just the way each visit was reported in the media?

Tried a little harder....... To do what? Actually, I don't really care. Whatever it was she could have done wouldn't have been enough for certain sections of the Tory party and media. Just like the agreement Cameron got but wasn't enough for those same people, hence the referendum vote.

EMR Feb 21st 2017 10:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12185527)
Did you read the link? It is the EU that has sent the delegation.

So what are you complaining about.
India possibly gets a deal with the EU that could be more beneficial than with a post brexit UK.
You keep posting that India will be a major economic force in years to come.
The EU is looking to the future, China also wants closer ties with the EU.
India will rightly do what it thinks is best for her.
I have no problems with that.

While all this is going on, we are stuck in limbo.
At least for the time we remain in the EU we can take advantage of any agreements negotiated by the EU.

Scamp Feb 21st 2017 11:06 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12185516)
Yes they can have it all. However after nine years of failure in negotiations, I put the link to indicate that it is the EU making the moves.

(India is the fastest growing world large economy!)

These things work both ways. Both the EU and India have failed to come to agreements. This trip (from your link) is about extending temporary to ensure a deal can be done.

Bipat Feb 21st 2017 11:07 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12185535)
So what are you complaining about.
India possibly gets a deal with the EU that could be more beneficial than with a post brexit UK.
You keep posting that India will be a major economic force in years to come.
The EU is looking to the future, China also wants closer ties with the EU.
India will rightly do what it thinks us best for her.
I have no problems with that.

While all this is going on, we are stuck in limbo.
At least for the time we remain in the EU we can take advantage of any agreements negotuated by the EU.

I am not complaining --just put the link for information, it may not be reported in UK news.

I had previously 'complained' in general conversation (not the Forum) that Mrs May had not made a good impression here. Boris Johnson's visit was largely ignored by local press. I think they both 'apparently' wasted opportunity for more discussion. Hopefully I am wrong.

Bipat Feb 21st 2017 11:12 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12185542)
These things work both ways. Both the EU and India have failed to come to agreements. This trip (from your link) is about extending temporary to ensure a deal can be done.

No, a hint, that if the treaties are extended, it might be "helpful" in the stalled free trade deal negotiations.


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