British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DigitalGhost Feb 6th 2017 1:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12172275)
Yes, really. Your list is by population, not density. For that, London falls to 43 on the list from the same site. According to the same Tokyo is less densely populated than London and holds 30+ million.

Well that's another issue really and comparing those two is really comparing apples and bananas. It doesn't help London's cause that it an extremely poorly designed and structured city in terms of housing and infrastructure. Tokyo is completely the opposite and that is why Tokyo generally functions so well.

London should be more like Tokyo or Shanghai or Chicago at this point but it isn't and that is mostly due to a combination of poor design decisions, British pigheadedness and greedy bastard private landlords.

Lion in Winter Feb 6th 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12172271)
Have you been following this thread for the past year?

I have.

Therefore the mystery is unsolved and no light has been shed.

People seem to confuse what they want to be the truth with what is the truth. They confuse wishes with reality and fact and propaganda have become hopelessly muddled.

DigitalGhost Feb 6th 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12172273)
Yours s not a different view its just bollocks.
So much for you wanting to do what is best for the UK..

I suggest you read this article. It was actually written by an immigrant and sums up very well my opinions on so-called 'freedom of movement' within the EU.

I became British because I love this country and its values - why can't other immigrants do the same?

amideislas Feb 6th 2017 1:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12172257)
Since you persist in comparing Germany to the UK I thought I would add other, less welcoming, comparisons.

How about child poverty in Germany which affects over two million children?

Or the poverty among elderly Germans, which had increased by 25% in ten years, according to a 2016 report?

‘German media reported on Saturday that some 5.6 million residents over 55 were living in poverty or affected by social marginalization.’

"Poverty is spreading all over Germany," said Sabine Zimmerman, a member of parliament with the opposition Left party who analyzed the statistics.

Or the widening gap between rich and poor in Germany?

Or food poverty in ‘wealthy’ Germany?

"At the beginning, people always feel very ashamed to be coming here, and often even start crying. Especially when I see the older people, some of whom have worked their entire lives and have to make do now with a few hundred euros a month, I can't help thinking that things ought to be different in a country like Germany."

Or the German food banks struggling to meet demand?

‘German food banks are increasingly overstretched as demand rises.’

‘In Germany, food pantries have been struggling to keep up with rising demand as the number of people seeking their services has soared.’

"The people who come to our distribution points mirror the problems in society, and show who is at the losing end.”

“The number of senior citizens waiting in line for bags full of staples, fruit and vegetables - donated by supermarkets and wholesalers - has doubled since 2007,” Brühl said. “He said that child poverty poses a problem, too. Children and senior citizens make up about half of the people whom food pantries serve. The development is alarming," he said.

All reports from 2016. The last one, re food banks, is from this year.

But help is on the way. Last week (September 2016) Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble proposed a 2-euro monthly raise in the child benefit per child. That should do it! Well done, wealthy Germany!

It’s all in here somewhere. Study finds 2 million poor children in wealthy Germany | Germany | DW.COM | 12.09.2016

No doubt it’s all fake news.

No, it's commonly referred to as "whataboutism". Deflection away from a weak argument by asserting that others have similar problems.

Who has it worse? You can argue that until pigs fly. Nonetheless, statistically, the "superior Britain" notion doesn't hold much water. In fact, it seems that the "EU is terrified of Britain" notion is just wishful thinking on the part of those projecting their fears of what's to come. It's also precisely why you hear the giggles and chuckles from across the channel every time the tabloids print another "superior Britain" and "EU terrified" narrative.

DigitalGhost Feb 6th 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12172289)
Nonetheless, statistically, the "superior Britain" notion doesn't hold much water.

And where is that notion coming from exactly? I certainly haven't seen any of that kind of sentiment expressed.

la mancha Feb 6th 2017 1:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12172275)
Yeah, it was last weeks comment and it clearly hasn't changed.

So what do you want then?
An equal distribution of wealth, comrade?
You can't possibly be serious?
You spend your days seeing people on low pay and in poverty - fine. So you don't see anyone who's wealthy and discuss their contributions to society? You just assume they bend the rules, take, take and take?

I'm staggered, I would suggest that it's probably the middle and aspiring-middle classes that have the toughest ride in the UK. Not those who are entitled to support and not those who will never need any support.




Yes, really. Your list is by population, not density. For that, London falls to 43 on the list from the same site. According to the same Tokyo is less densely populated than London and holds 30+ million.

Nothing to be confused about. Your claims on homelessness etc etc are probably opinion because I didn't see any actual information or evidence to suggest correct BUT, I can imagine they probably are roughly correct or even if not I would probably agree with those points based on non-concrete evidence. In a non-sarcastic way - I hope that makes sense. I was agreeing with those opinion bits of your original post.

Look, you’re talking shite to me here.

I meet all types but I am responding to your post. I am not looking for equal distribution. I have never said that, and I am not a ‘comrade’. I hate communism and their followers. I am responding to your graphs and statistics.

Re your housing comments about density and population; the record in London, thus far discovered, is thirty-one living in a four-bed property in absolute squalor. Why? Because of a shortage of housing. Why? You figure that out for yourself, smart boy.

la mancha Feb 6th 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12172289)
No, it's commonly referred to as "whataboutism". Deflection away from a weak argument by asserting that others have similar problems.

Who has it worse? You can argue that until pigs fly. Nonetheless, statistically, the "superior Britain" notion doesn't hold much water. In fact, it seems that the "EU is terrified of Britain" notion is just wishful thinking on the part of those projecting their fears of what's to come. It's also precisely why you hear the giggles and chuckles from across the channel every time the tabloids print another "superior Britain" and "EU terrified" narrative.

All you have said is your own imagination; it doesn’t come from me. I am merely responding to your post comparing the UK to Germany. As I said, if anyone doesn’t like it I don’t care but I will keep responding like for like.

And your side-stepping with ‘superior Britain’ would put a matador to shame.

amideislas Feb 6th 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12172290)
And where is that notion coming from exactly? I certainly haven't seen any of that kind of sentiment expressed.

Where have you been? As Manch has repeatedly illustrated, Everybody knows the EU is terrified of brexit and will inevitably capitulate to the demands of superior Britain. (Well, everyone in Britain anyway). It's been a common theme in the tabloids anyway.

Oh, wait... That was before the brexit team bothered to investigate what "brexit" means. No worries though, Britain is still going to be superior. Got trump on our side now. That'll show 'em.

DigitalGhost Feb 6th 2017 1:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12172299)
Oh, wait... That was before the brexit team bothered to investigate what "brexit" means.

To be fair, they never had much of a chance. The odds in that regard were stacked against them. They couldn't go to the EU and discuss things because they weren't the government in power at that time and they couldn't discuss potential arrangements with the wider world or make promises to industry for that same reason.

amideislas Feb 6th 2017 1:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12172311)
To be fair, they never had much of a chance. The odds in that regard were stacked against them. They couldn't go to the EU and discuss things because they weren't the government in power at that time and they couldn't discuss potential arrangements with the wider world or make promises to industry for that same reason.

Actually, they've been in power for quite some time. And in that time, the narrative has changed dramatically, from "we will get all of the benefits without any of the burdens [because we're Britain]" to "OK, well we're just going to go for full exit, but hope to negotiate a few goodies on the way out". But the entire world is lining up to do trade with us [read: take advantage of our weakness] so, we're certain to flourish afterward.

DigitalGhost Feb 6th 2017 1:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12172321)
Actually, they've been in power for quite some time. And in that time, the narrative has changed dramatically, from "we will get all of the benefits without any of the burdens [because we're Britain]" to "OK, well we're just going to go for full exit, but hope to negotiate a few goodies on the way out". But the entire world is lining up to do trade with us [read: take advantage of our weakness] so, we're certain to flourish afterward.

I'm sorry but I don't think any of that is true.

EMR Feb 6th 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12172280)
I suggest you read this article. It was actually written by an immigrant and sums up very well my opinions on so-called 'freedom of movement' within the EU.

I became British because I love this country and its values - why can't other immigrants do the same?

Pointless, rather like your economic theories that would prefer native born brits to live in a country in recession rather than the growth we have been seeing for the last few years while a member of the EU.

Being British means wanting the best for everyone not just those who think as you do.

Dick Dasterdly Feb 6th 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
NHS hospitals to charge overseas patients for non-urgent care

Yet another Victory for Farage and Common Sense.

It's only a couple of years back that he was widely criticised for this suggestion.

Now it has come to pass.

Furthermore there is little difference between other policies he was advocating back then and those now being persued by the current govt.

:thumbup:

Red Eric Feb 6th 2017 2:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12172212)
So there you go, you voted in your own self-interest. No harm there, that's your right but that was only the same as what most people did including those who voted out.

You're definitely not alone either, there are people in the UK who voted the same way as you and for a very similar reason. I work with a middle-aged woman who voted in purely because she and her husband plan on retiring to Spain in a few years from now and they didn't want to have to go through any immigration paperwork.

You misunderstood me.

I was stating my reasons for feeling entitled to exercise my vote, not for why I voted the way I did. It was in response to the absurd botox which has surfaced several times on this thread that UK citizens resident in the EU shouldn't have been allowed to vote, or were being cheeky in doing so if they were going to vote Remain (or words to that effect). Most especially to those Leavers who say that whilst harbouring intentions of their own to emigrate.

Those of us who have exercised our right to do so for whatever reason know better than most that in moving to another EU member state one is building bridges as opposed to burning them and expanding horizons, not shrinking them. Our pasts in the UK are intermeshed with our presents and our futures in the EU in a way that they wouldn't be if we moved to Upper Volta, for example. Had I done that I would have been at best a curious onlooker to the referendum as a strange side-show taking place in a far-flung land.

But my reasons for voting Remain go far deeper than my personal circumstances or what I said in that post. :)

EMR Feb 6th 2017 2:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12172342)
NHS hospitals to charge overseas patients for non-urgent care

Yet another Victory for Farage and Common Sense.

It's only a couple of years back that he was widely criticised for this suggestion.

Now it has come to pass.

Furthermore there is little difference between other policies he was advocating back then and those now being persued by the current govt.

:thumbup:

WTF HAS farage got to do with it, he has other things on his mind at the moment.
EMERGENCY treatment will still be provided without any delay.
Will non UK rax paying expats Brits also be charged ?
I hope so.


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