British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DaveLovesDee Jan 25th 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161048)
Right so now you're telling me that Eastern Europeans can't just move to Britain as they see fit then?

Not all of them. 6 East European coutries aren't EU or EEA member states, therefore free movement doesn't apply to them.

Albania
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Kosovo
Macedonia
Montenegro
Serbia


Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12161066)
Not if UK immigration rejects them. And they often do.

It is simply not the case that, as Nigel Farage has claimed, “we can’t stop people like this entering the country”.

And that person's details hadn't been entered on the Shengen Information System database. If it had, he'd likely have been refused entry to the UK, or monitored.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161088)
Very true. Likewise, the EU is not responsible for the considerable success that Britain has made out of multiculturalism, unlike the total 'piss up in a brewery' scenario that exists on the continent.

Doesn't that multi-culturalism include EU nationals?


Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12161195)
What if when article 50 is triggered the EU says you have two choices:-

1) A hard brexit you are out of everything

or

2) You can remain part of the EU as a full member which will mean no rebates, no opt outs and no vetoes.

What will be the choice after all it will not only be Britain at the negotiating table.

.

Option 2 isn't factually accurate. If we remain a member of the EU, it will be with the rebate, opt-outs and vetoes we currently have.

Being a member but losing the rebate, opt-outs and vetoes we currently have would only happen if we left the EU, then decided to apply to rejoin as either an EU or EEA member.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161239)
And therein lies the problem. We should not be allowing foreigners to campaign and manage funds with the intent of influencing British democracy.

Oh, so immigrants shouldn't be allowed to manage funds. Quick, send that f-ing Canadian back where he came from. He shouldn't be running the Bank of England.......

While we're at it, can we send any foreign restaurant managers and chefs back too, in case they influence our taste buds....


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161277)
Would you even be able to get away with that kind of thing in America?

The last time I checked, the Americans weren't crazy about foreign interference and there are laws in place to prevent them from getting anywhere near to the top jobs in government.

Actually, only the President of the USA is legally required to be born in America. And yes, Puerto Rico is a US territory.

Though Senator Ted Cruz was a Presidential candidate last year, and he was born in Canada.


Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12161311)
But... that preference could be a boon in Britain's bid to become the 51st state of Trumperica (or at least tagging on Donald's coattails as one of his submissive mistresses - maybe a title, some land and deeds might come with that effort?). Oooh, on to something real clever now. Maybe Britain could try to get pregnant. Hmmm...

It'd be a miracle if pregnancy could occur from being shafted from behind. And it's not going to be enjoyable without lots of lubricant. p

SultanOfSwing Jan 25th 2017 3:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161366)
Not all of them. 6 East European coutries aren't EU or EEA member states, therefore free movement doesn't apply to them.

Albania
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Kosovo
Macedonia
Montenegro
Serbia

Also Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 3:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161366)
Actually, only the President of the USA is legally required to be born in America. And yes, Puerto Rico is a US territory.

It is required to be VP as well and I'm sure I remember a few other positions that only US born nationals could take.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...citizen_clause

I know you have to be a USC for 9 years before you can become a Senator.


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161366)
Doesn't that multi-culturalism include EU nationals?

Not IMHO, no.


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161366)
And therein lies the problem. We should not be allowing foreigners to campaign and manage funds with the intent of influencing British democracy.

I did personally feel that Carney's appointment represented a conflict of interest.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 3:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12161372)
Also Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova.

Does Russia really count considering that it stretches all the way from Europe to Alaska?

I have been to parts of Hokkaido where Russia is the nearest neighbouring country.

SultanOfSwing Jan 25th 2017 3:40 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161375)
Does Russia really count considering that it stretches all the way from Europe to Alaska?

If Cyprus can be an EU member and Turkey can potentially apply for membership, then I think we can count Russia, since most of their population lives east of the Urals.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 3:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12161378)
If Cyprus can be an EU member and Turkey can potentially apply for membership, then I think we can count Russia, since most of their population lives east of the Urals.

Turkey is never getting into the EU. They've been dangling that carrot for so long that not even the Turks themselves believe that it will happen anymore.

SultanOfSwing Jan 25th 2017 3:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161380)
Turkey is never getting into the EU. They've been dangling that carrot for so long that not even the Turks themselves believe that it will happen anymore.

That's a given. Though, Cyprus is often thought of as being part of Asia rather than Europe and they are an EU member :D.

I still count Russia as European mostly, due to the population distribution.

DaveLovesDee Jan 25th 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161315)
You've posted a lot there but I just want to point out that I am pretty sure that one isn't true. There are other positions in public office that are off limits to those born outside the United States. One of the US residents on here will be able to confirm either way though I'm sure.

There was a lot of stuff to respond to. One longer post made more sense the many shorter ones.

Ted Cruz

It appears that non- US-born nationals can also become President.

The U.S. Constitution provides as follows:

Article II Section 1 Clause 5:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Amendment XIV Section 1:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161325)
I personally prefer to avoid UK airports because of the over-zealous security controls and the inhumanity of it all but the lines at UK immigration are really the fault of the failures of the European Union more than anything else.

Would you prefer overzealous, or a breach in immigration? And what's inhuman about it?

If the queues are too long at UK immigration, that's down to Border Force staff scheduling or Home Office recruitment.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161349)
The EU doesn't help. It opens up a lot of loopholes that wouldn't exist without the EU. Surinder Singh and the EEA family permit for example.

Surinder Singh is a legally-valid judgement by a UK court about the rights of family members of British (and other EU) nationals. The EEA family Permit is a UK Home Office entry visa.

Neither are loopholes.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 3:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12161383)
That's a given. Though, Cyprus is often thought of as being part of Asia rather than Europe and they are an EU member :D.

I still count Russia as European mostly, due to the population distribution.

I think most Russians would probably agree with you although a couple of Russia's most populated cities are in the Far East and neighbour China and North Korea. The majority of people are in St Petersburg and Moscow though which is why Russia is often lumped under the European continental umbrella.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 3:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161386)
Would you prefer overzealous, or a breach in immigration? And what's inhuman about it?

If the queues are too long at UK immigration, that's down to Border Force staff scheduling or Home Office recruitment.

I didn't mean those, I mean the airport security. AFAIK this is the only major country in the world that outsources airport security to private security contractors. They like to think of themselves as an equivalent of the TSA but in actual fact they are anything but that.

The long lines at UK passport control don't bother me all that much.


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161386)
Surinder Singh is a legally-valid judgement by a UK court about the rights of family members of British (and other EU) nationals. The EEA family Permit is a UK Home Office entry visa.

Neither are loopholes.

The media disagree.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38597384

Fortunately Brexit will probably kill both anyway though.

DaveLovesDee Jan 25th 2017 3:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12161372)
Also Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova.

Thanks. I forgot those.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161380)
Turkey is never getting into the EU. They've been dangling that carrot for so long that not even the Turks themselves believe that it will happen anymore.

Yet this was a big part of Vote Leave's campaign.

Leave Talks Turkey


Vote Leave feel that they now have the momentum in this campaign. The three polls out today all have them ahead. Inside the Leave camp, they think that it is their focus on the possibility of Turkey becoming an EU member that is, in part, responsible for this apparent shift in their favour. So, in their official referendum address, which will go to 40 million people, Vote Leave is going big on the question of Turkish accession. The leaflet — which you can see here — has a map on the back showing how if Turkey joins, the EU would border both Syria and Iraq.

SultanOfSwing Jan 25th 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12161389)
I think most Russians would probably agree with you although a couple of Russia's most populated cities are in the Far East and neighbour China and North Korea. The majority of people are in St Petersburg and Moscow though which is why Russia is often lumped under the European continental umbrella.

There really is no true way to define Russia, since both are too narrow. One could say they are culturally slightly more European and obviously Western Russia contains the majority of the population, but in terms of area Russia dominates Asia with relatively little territory east of the Urals.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161394)
Yet this was a big part of Vote Leave's campaign.

Leave Talks Turkey

Those people were talking bollocks. Turkish accession has been 'on the table' since before the UK was a member and it will probably remain that way long after Britain has left.

I've said before on here that I have a lot of respect for Turkey and Istanbul is my favourite European city. In many ways the EU can be blamed for the rise of Erdogan and a return from open secularism to right-wing Islamism in modern Turkey because the Turkish people feel as though the EU has turned their back on them and I don't think they are being entirely paranoid.

Turkish accession could actually aid the EU after Brexit by bringing another major NATO power into the organisation but in reality it is unlikely to happen.

DigitalGhost Jan 25th 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12161400)
There really is no true way to define Russia, since both are too narrow. One could say they are culturally slightly more European and obviously Western Russia contains the majority of the population, but in terms of area Russia dominates Asia with relatively little territory east of the Urals.

It is definitely one of the more interesting countries that I have visited. Terrifying but interesting.

Bipat Jan 25th 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12161386)


Surinder Singh is a legally-valid judgement by a UK court about the rights of family members of British (and other EU) nationals. The EEA family Permit is a UK Home Office entry visa.

Neither are loopholes.

Surinder Singh case was heard in the ECJ.


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