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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Lion in Winter Jan 22nd 2017 11:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12158603)
How about this Comrades,
Straight from your own bible. :lol:

Seems the jokes on you.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...acturers-china

Manufacturing sector
Production returning to UK as cost advantage in China diminishes.

One in six companies brought manufacturing back to Britain in last three years according to EEF, with signs trend will continue.

:thumbup:


What does this have to do with the EU?

DaveLovesDee Jan 23rd 2017 1:31 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12158541)
When David Davis walked into Berlaymont the greeting he received from Guy Verhofstadt was ‘Welcome to Hell’. Truest words ever said. The whole of the EU is one big HELL.

I Google'd this. It happened in November.

And there was I thinking it was something that happened this week that I'd missed?

Scamp Jan 23rd 2017 3:53 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12158541)
Angry? Me? I’m on top of the world, my world now, mine and all the other millions of people who are fed up with the old.

I am not angry: I am stronger. We all are; the millions of us who voted to get out of the EU. It is you who are still in the year ‘Project Fear’ who have been shocked, dazed and hurled out of your comfort zone. Listen up, you hopeless bunch of doom-mongers, it is you who wanted so badly to believe there was no way we would ever leave the EU and who are now stuck in Project Fear mode, rabbits in the headlights with nowhere to go, frozen in time, unsure of the future because you cannot see any further than yesterday.

When David Davis walked into Berlaymont the greeting he received from Guy Verhofstadt was ‘Welcome to Hell’. Truest words ever said. The whole of the EU is one big HELL.

So much anger moaning about anger whilst denying being angry?

It's a good job you see your own anger as being 'stronger'. I think the UK is going to need some more strength for when Article 50 comes....which may as well be soon since we've kinda given up the game plan eh?

Hard ball the 20 trillion dollar power house and hope for the best. Well, as you wish - I am genuinely, totally and unfathomably hoping for the best possible outcome for the UK.

http://cdn.static-economist.com/site...121_wwd000.jpg


Oh...and for the last time, will people stop saying the it was 'Project Fear' because it's 'Project ****ing Reality' for anyone trying to spend their worthless £ overseas when they are north of 20% less helpful. No wonder the FTSE bounced with all the overseas earnings companies make, no wonder manufacturing has increased, no wonder we're selling more. I can't possibly begin to explain such simple stuff again, but some recognition that the 'perceived positives' and clear negatives for the economy at the moment from this vote are entirely from this vote.

Turn that around and put them as absolute positives if you fancy a return to manufacturing Britain, some people apparently want to and think that would be a really good thing, I'm not convinced because I don't see it as more useful than the services sectors that contribute so much to our economy. Not sure we can be both, happy to hear more about that potential blend actually.

morpeth Jan 23rd 2017 6:31 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12157652)
I want deals that benefit the UK ,brexit was about the UK, not about India , NZ etc etc.
I want UK companies to start manufacturing cheaper drugs, almost everything in UK plants , employimg those who live in the UK.Not in plants in India or anywhere else.
I want a UK government that invests in training and education so that it does not need to imports skills from anywhere, EU or otherwise.
But I know that brexit ir no brexit none of this is going to happen.

All that matters in a trade deal is that the other party " thinks " it has benefitted but in reality it is the UK that gains the upper hand.
Business is not about equality, .

I think you are entirely correct, the UK needs to go into any trade deal to get the best deal it can for the UK. I am unsure why there would be even a question as to the obligations of UK trade negotiators to do their duty and get the best deal for UK. On any trade negotiation there are trade-offs for either side but obviously UK trade negotiators should work towards best agreement for Britain- of course either side does the same, and depending n skills of negotiators and economic realities, a deal is struck.

EMR Jan 23rd 2017 7:40 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12158603)
How about this Comrades,
Straight from your own bible. :lol:

Seems the jokes on you.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...acturers-china

Manufacturing sector
Production returning to UK as cost advantage in China diminishes.

One in six companies brought manufacturing back to Britain in last three years according to EEF, with signs trend will continue.

:thumbup:


You really are our resident fool.
Please explain why manufacturing as a % of UK GDP continues to decline.
A FACT confirmed by May who is announcing a strategy today with yet another attempt to rebalance the economy.
You can find all the figures on the ONS site .
Our economy continues to grow as a member of the EU.

InVinoVeritas Jan 23rd 2017 9:43 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12158823)
You really are our resident fool.
Please explain why manufacturing as a % of UK GDP continues to decline.
A FACT confirmed by May who is announcing a strategy today with yet another attempt to rebalance the economy.
You can find all the figures on the ONS site .
Our economy continues to grow as a member of the EU.

Yes indeed, a uniquely British phenomenom:-

EMR Jan 23rd 2017 9:50 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12158867)
Yes indeed, a uniquely British phenomenom:-

I only care about the UK.
The falling numbers employed in manufacturing.
The 100s thousands who voted br4xit in the mistaken belief that well paid jobs in UK manufacturing would return after brexit.
Are you confirming that this is never going to happen and that they have been conned.

amideislas Jan 23rd 2017 9:50 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12158717)
Turn that around and put them as absolute positives if you fancy a return to manufacturing Britain, some people apparently want to and think that would be a really good thing, I'm not convinced because I don't see it as more useful than the services sectors that contribute so much to our economy. Not sure we can be both, happy to hear more about that potential blend actually.

"Manufacturing" (or lack of it) isn't the elephant in the room. The fact is, that Asia has manufacturing wrapped up. The west can't compete with Asia, nor would it want to. Salaries and benefits would have to plummet, and cost of living, too.

Besides, we Westerners have become accustomed to more fulfilling pursuits than installing 4000 chips onto circuit boards or installating 500 door panel screws per hour. We want occupations that deliver personal satisfaction, such as creative, intellectual, money making occupations, etc.

Aside from being too expensive, we are culturally at odds with competitively industrialised mass-manufacturing. Pipe dream.

Bipat Jan 23rd 2017 10:22 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12158870)
"Manufacturing" (or lack of it) isn't the elephant in the room. The fact is, that Asia has manufacturing wrapped up. The west can't compete with Asia, nor would it want to. Salaries and benefits would have to plummet, and cost of living, too.

Besides, we Westerners have become accustomed to more fulfilling pursuits than installing 4000 chips onto circuit boards or installating 500 door panel screws per hour. We want occupations that deliver personal satisfaction, such as creative, intellectual, money making occupations, etc.

Aside from being too expensive, we are culturally at odds with competitively industrialised mass-manufacturing. Pipe dream.

You do have some strange ideas about people living in 'Eastern' countries!
(That 'remainer'-- xenophobia!:lol:)
'Easterners' have larger populations so therefore more people doing repetitive factory jobs.
They also have more people doing "creative, intellectual, money making occupations"!

InVinoVeritas Jan 23rd 2017 10:32 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12158878)
You do have some strange ideas about people living in 'Eastern' countries!
(That 'remainer'-- xenophobia!:lol:)
'Easterners' have larger populations so therefore more people doing repetitive factory jobs.
They also have more people doing "creative, intellectual, money making occupations"!

:goodpost:

In fact, China is experiencing many of the problems which the West went through a few decades ago and, as a result, has become far less competitive than used to be the case. I personally know of companies bringing manufacturing back to the UK (and these are relatively hi-tech companies) because of higher input costs, increased salaries and social charges, higher taxes, immigration hassles and capital controls. Some people on this thread are stuck in the sixties.

morpeth Jan 23rd 2017 10:37 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12158870)
"Manufacturing" (or lack of it) isn't the elephant in the room. The fact is, that Asia has manufacturing wrapped up. The west can't compete with Asia, nor would it want to. Salaries and benefits would have to plummet, and cost of living, too.

Besides, we Westerners have become accustomed to more fulfilling pursuits than installing 4000 chips onto circuit boards or installating 500 door panel screws per hour. We want occupations that deliver personal satisfaction, such as creative, intellectual, money making occupations, etc.

Aside from being too expensive, we are culturally at odds with competitively industrialised mass-manufacturing. Pipe dream.

Why is West culturally at odds with industrialized mass-manufacturing ? Why wouldn't the West want more manufacturing jobs for lower skilled workers ?

While I agree overall probably better in the long run for capital to be allocated towards high technology/skilled occupations and industries, manufacturing can provide decent living to many who do not have the skills or experience in areas of the "new economy".

There are areas West can compete in manufacturing- with increasing wages in China, plus advances in automation and higher productivity of workers in some Western countries- it may well be 10 or 15 years from now the West can compete more than today.

Last year I did some consulting work at auto parts manufacturer which had factory in USA and one in China. The US factory had more productive workers, higher quality, and was serving US market but also exported to Chinese market. It wasn't a super hi-tech product, but investments in machinery, and higher quality, made up for much of the wage disparity except costs for medical insurance, so they used more temporary workers wherever they could. The factory is looking for new technology to further automate processes, and has no plans to import from China, unless medical costs and other regulatory costs increase too much . On other hand they will keep Chinese factory simply to serve local market there easier, but supplement production when necessary by exporting from USA. While perhaps not a typical situation, it does show that for many products lower wage costs are not the whole story.

DigitalGhost Jan 23rd 2017 11:12 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12156054)
I'll use small words.

The rebate is taken from what we pay to the EU before we pay it. The money for UK projects comes from the money we actually send to the EU.



The UK is the 7th largest economy.

India Overtakes Britain as the World’s Sixth-Largest Economy

5th France
6th India
7th UK

The EU's GDP is around US$17.1 trillion
The UK's GDP is around US$2.6 trillion
EU 17.1 - UK 2.6 = US$14.5 trillion, or still more than 5.5 x the UK's current GDP, without taking into account any hits GDP takes post-Brexit.



It's already started.

EU wins first round of Brexit battle by 'forcing UK out of single market', former adviser warns Theresa May



It's a Union. The European Union.

The United States is also a Union.



Why does it have to be an option from the EU? I thought the UK was 'taking back control'?

a) Either there's a trade deal with the EU, or there is not.
b) Either there's a customs union with the EU, or there is not.
c) Either there's financial passporting with the EU, or there is not.

If the UK chooses to become a tax haven, that has absolutely nothing to do with either a, b or c.



Why would the EU agree to only 2 of the 4 freedoms for a leaving member when members have to agree to all 4. Either we're in, or we're out. What you want is never going to happen, and was never likely to.

It's like moving back from Malta but wanting to keep the same weather :p



There are no EU taxes. Only taxes in each member state of the EU.



You've changed since you were born, the UK has changed since you were born, the world has changed since you were born. Get over it.

113 years ago last month, the Wright brothers made their first flight. 5 years later, Ford began production of the first mass-produced car. Did people quit these things when 40 years later planes and cars had changed from what they initially started out as?

People evolve, organisations evolve, and so do products and agreements.

And the EEC included free movement at the time we joined.

I don't expect for Britain to be given special concessions (e.g. membership of the EU with everything but free movement). What I am saying is that freedom of movement should never have been an EU condition in the first place and it absolutely should have been reviewed when the EU started to expand into the former Soviet Union.

The United States is a country. The European Union is not.

Finally, I will believe that the Indian economy has overtaken the British economy in size when the CIA factbook, the UN, the World Bank and the IMF produce figures to state that has happened. Until then, nada.

DigitalGhost Jan 23rd 2017 11:14 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12158870)
Besides, we Westerners have become accustomed to more fulfilling pursuits than installing 4000 chips onto circuit boards or installating 500 door panel screws per hour. We want occupations that deliver personal satisfaction, such as creative, intellectual, money making occupations, etc.

So do the Japanese, the Hong Kongers, the Singaporeans and the Koreans, among others.

You do seem to have a very strange vision of modern Asia. It is the world's largest continent in terms of both size and population and comprises of far more than just the People's Republic of China.

Red Eric Jan 23rd 2017 11:16 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12158883)
:goodpost:

In fact, China is experiencing many of the problems which the West went through a few decades ago and, as a result, has become far less competitive than used to be the case. I personally know of companies bringing manufacturing back to the UK (and these are relatively hi-tech companies) because of higher input costs, increased salaries and social charges, higher taxes, immigration hassles and capital controls. Some people on this thread are stuck in the sixties.

We're getting there, apparently - probably explains why manufacturing is returning, too :


Textile firms paying UK workers £3 per hour, investigation finds

Dick Dasterdly Jan 23rd 2017 11:19 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
EU to Theresa May: You CANNOT begin post-Brexit trade talks ahead of Donald Trump meeting | UK | News | Daily Express

Arrogant Dictatorial Clowns.

Looks like the Brussels Bureaucrats are in for another king size dose of reality in 2017.

:cool:


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