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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DaveLovesDee Jan 11th 2017 1:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12149054)
There have always been European workers/residents in the UK, long before EEC existed.

And non-EU's too, especially Commonwealth nationals.

Then we stopped needing so many Commonwealth and non-EU nationals because EU nationals were more easily able to work in the UK.


Why would this change?
Because certain sections of the media and some politicians like to blame the EU and EU nationals for the ills of the UK, when the blame should be aimed at the government.


The ending of 'free movement' would be fairer to would-be permanent migrants from non-EU Europe and the rest of the world.
What's 'fair' got to do with it. We signed up to free movement in 1972. Some of the other member states had been having free movement since 1957. Non-EU countries aren't part of this agreement, and never will be.


Seasonal and temporary workers would obviously be from Europe. As I replied to another poster people are not going to travel across the world just to collect garbage (his idea of immigrant labour).
Australians do come to the UK, illegally working in bars (especially in London). They also tend to overstay.

SultanOfSwing Jan 11th 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12148773)
:goodpost:


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12148848)
Hear, hear.

Not sure if you two agree with the content of my post, or that I'm essentially a useless immigrant taking up space ... :lol:


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148880)
I think family-based immigration is a different matter entirely and sits outside the scope of what I said. I was referring purely to people with no prior links to the country.

But I had no prior links to the country, only the current link that I was knobbing a native. That's it. I'd not get an employment visa to live in the US for a million years. I spent my first year here unemployed (largely due to USCIS and processing times, but still) and yet they allowed me to enter on what is arguably the easiest visa route offered by US immigration and I was able to fast-track my citizenship application by being allowed to apply after 3 years of permanent residency instead of the usual 5.

So by your rationale above though, would that mean that refugees who have family living in the UK are exempt from your scorn?


Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12148972)
... droning on about the idiocy of your countrymen ...

Well, to be fair, a good deal of you are demonstrating your idiocy without us needing to point it out.

Fredbargate Jan 11th 2017 1:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12149082)
My apologies Fred. That was what I intended to write.

I have edited the post concerned. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Thanks Dave, however I must admit you were right in the fact that I was stopped, but no documents were checked.

A man in a High Vis jacket stopped me after recognising I was driving a Gibraltar registered car.
He informed me that was a first for him in Ireland and he went on to to say how he enjoyed visiting Gib whilst on a golfing holiday on the Costa del Sol

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12149106)
But I had no prior links to the country, only the current link that I was knobbing a native. That's it. I'd not get an employment visa to live in the US for a million years. I spent my first year here unemployed (largely due to USCIS and processing times, but still) and yet they allowed me to enter on what is arguably the easiest visa route offered by US immigration and I was able to fast-track my citizenship application by being allowed to apply after 3 years of permanent residency instead of the usual 5.

So by your rationale above though, would that mean that refugees who have family living in the UK are exempt from your scorn?

I think if it's a genuine relationship between a local citizen and a refugee then that should be treated just how your relationship and mine were by the immigration authorities in question.

IMVHO, refugees should not be able to sponsor their family members to join them though. The ones who are trying to push for that in Germany especially at the moment are really biting the hand that feeds them.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12149099)
What's 'fair' got to do with it. We signed up to free movement in 1972. Some of the other member states had been having free movement since 1957. Non-EU countries aren't part of this agreement, and never will be.

The problem is that they keep expanding the list of eligible countries further and further towards the Russian border. They should have really stopped at Western Europe.

BristolUK Jan 11th 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149018)
...I am notably smarter, more mature and more knowledgeable than you are... all that you are doing is making yourself look silly.

Wow.

Is it too late for a special award?

SultanOfSwing Jan 11th 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149157)
I think if it's a genuine relationship between a local citizen and a refugee then that should be treated just how your relationship and mine were by the immigration authorities in question.

Refugees aren't governed by immigration laws in the same way you and I were, of course, that's a major difference. But it should, for example, strengthen their case when it is being adjudicated?


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149157)
IMVHO, refugees should not be able to sponsor their family members to join them though. The ones who are trying to push for that in Germany especially at the moment are really biting the hand that feeds them.

The second I became a US citizen, I was allowed to start petitioning for family members to come out and join me. How is that any different?

DaveLovesDee Jan 11th 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149161)
The problem is that they keep expanding the list of eligible countries further and further towards the Russian border. They should have really stopped at Western Europe.

The rich countries, you mean.

Let's not give those European countries that were kept for under Soviet control the chance to loft themselves from the gutter.

Because they're not like us, are they?

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12149171)
Refugees aren't governed by immigration laws in the same way you and I were, of course, that's a major difference. But it should, for example, strengthen their case when it is being adjudicated?



The second I became a US citizen, I was allowed to start petitioning for family members to come out and join me. How is that any different?

Because you were a fully-fledged, tax paying, voting citizen. You had permanently tied yourself to that country and gone through some pretty lengthy and complicated procedures to do so. You hadn't just shown up, filed a refugee application and then requested that the host government now import your wife and kids at the local tax payer's expense.

IIRC, inland asylum applications are handled under international law but outland ones aren't.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 2:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12149173)
The rich countries, you mean.

They're not all rich. Especially not now anyway.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 2:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12149170)
Wow.

Is it too late for a special award?

I know it sounded arrogant but if you had that buffoon chucking insults at you and accusing you of all sorts without any kind of basis in fact then you would be justified in doing the same.

Bipat Jan 11th 2017 2:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12149099)
1) And non-EU's too, especially Commonwealth nationals.
Then we stopped needing so many Commonwealth and non-EU nationals because EU nationals were more easily able to work in the UK.


2)Because certain sections of the media and some politicians like to blame the EU and EU nationals for the ills of the UK, when the blame should be aimed at the government.

3)What's 'fair' got to do with it. We signed up to free movement in 1972. Some of the other member states had been having free movement since 1957. Non-EU countries aren't part of this agreement, and never will be.

4)Australians do come to the UK, illegally working in bars (especially in London). They also tend to overstay.

1) We didn't stop needing them, the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962 and later Enoch Powell propaganda etc. stopped them coming.
I have put links before regarding the fact that more are needed.

It might be remembered that without Commonwealth help (voluntary or involuntary) our position in Europe might be quite different!!

2) Yes certainly this happens regarding some of the ills of the UK.

3)We are discussing the future, post-Brexit.

4) We are discussing legal migration.

SultanOfSwing Jan 11th 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149176)
Because you were a fully-fledged, tax paying, voting citizen. You had permanently tied yourself to that country and gone through some pretty lengthy and complicated procedures to do so. You hadn't just shown up, filed a refugee application and then requested that the host government now import your wife and kids at the local tax payer's expense.

I didn't register to vote until two years after my citizenship was granted, if you want to split hairs. And let's not pretend that simply being a citizen and paying taxes makes me some kind of shining beacon of virtue, either.

I could still have been seen as taking advantage though, if I all of a sudden decided that my parents and my sister were now coming over as well. The principle is the same, even if the methods are different.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149176)
IIRC, inland asylum applications are handled under international law but outland ones aren't.

OK. I knew there was a slightly different process but was not 100% on the finer points.

Lion in Winter Jan 11th 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12149170)
Wow.

Is it too late for a special award?

Best imitation of a public school 6th former.

SultanOfSwing Jan 11th 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12149184)
Best imitation of a public school 6th former.

Hide the digestives ... :unsure:


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