British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12148992)
It requires travel documents to be checked against relevant databases for all people entering or exiting the Schengen area.

I'm confused, do they not already do that? And if not then why the hell not?

It was my understanding that the CTA with Ireland only still existed because Ireland also refused to join Schengen. Every other border connecting a UK territory with Europe should be secured.

DaveLovesDee Jan 11th 2017 12:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148989)
There is still government funding for nursing programs at universities for EU citizens. Teaching and nursing are two of the very few areas where students can still get their education entirely, if not almost entirely, covered for them.

Most of these are funded through the EU.


I'm sorry but I don't see anything wrong with the hiring and visa system that you mentioned related to non-EU recruits. Recruiting from outside the EU should be absolutely discouraged as much as possible and the government have a duty to make it as difficult as possible for employers to do that. After Brexit that will probably change to include hiring Europeans as well which, to be fair, is exactly as it should be.
Excellent. When are you going to discourage your wife's employer from employing her? She's non-EU, isn't she?

I don't care where someone's from, if I need a skilled worker next month, I want the most-qualified candidates who can start when I need them to. The only discouragement I'd have with most non-EU workers (and EU workers if they needed work permits) would be that I'd be looking at 3 months before they could start work. If I couldn't source the number of staff I needed when they were needed, I'd move my business to an EU country where I could hire them quickly.

The UK financial sector understands this too.


Are Europeans creating large numbers of jobs for British workers? I'm not really sure that they are. I'm fairly confident that if you really looked into it then for every Easyjet that to be fair does recruit from the UK workforce, there will be 1000 Polish delicatessens that only hire their own people due to language or cultural requirements.
It doesn't really matter who anyone is creating jobs for, the immigration numbers are not pushing Brits or other EU nationals to become unemployed.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12148996)
Most of these are funded through the EU.

I'm sorry but I don't see anything wrong with the hiring and visa system that you mentioned related to non-EU recruits. Recruiting from outside the EU should be absolutely discouraged as much as possible and the government have a duty to make it as difficult as possible for employers to do that. After Brexit that will probably change to include hiring Europeans as well which, to be fair, is exactly as it should be.

Excellent. When are you going to discourage your wife's employer from employing her? She's non-EU, isn't she?

I don't care where someone's from, if I need a skilled worker next month, I want the most-qualified candidates who can start when I need them to. The only discouragement I'd have with most non-EU workers (and EU workers if they needed work permits) would be that I'd be looking at 3 months before they could start work. If I couldn't source the number of staff I needed when they were needed, I'd move to an EU country where I could hire them.

Are Europeans creating large numbers of jobs for British workers? I'm not really sure that they are. I'm fairly confident that if you really looked into it then for every Easyjet that to be fair does recruit from the UK workforce, there will be 1000 Polish delicatessens that only hire their own people due to language or cultural requirements.

[/QUOTE]

Yes she is. She presently lives in the UK on a permanent residence card but if you want to deport us somewhere else then please be my guest.

She works in restaurant management and whilst she does manage a lot of Europeans, tbh they have been a real thorn in her side since many of them still can't use English to the required standard and on a few occasions that lack of understanding has led to potential safety problems in the kitchen. She also has to reject a lot of European applicants simply because they have shown no English competency whatsoever at interview.

EMR Jan 11th 2017 12:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148979)
The UK tax payer didn't subsidise my degree. I paid for my tuition fees myself and studied part-time as well as holding down a full-time job so that I could afford it.

In any case, I have no children and almost never use the NHS so I guess you could say that if any subsidies did go towards my higher education then they were funded from my own tax contributions anyway as well as the ridiculously high level of taxes paid by my UK-resident parents.

Go on, carry on taking cheap shots at me and I'll continue to fire them straight back.

You paid the total cost of your education then not just the heavily subsidised cost charged to UK residents.
Or did you pay the much higher fees charged to overseas students.

So now you want lower taxes.,How are the changes in UK society, training, education, health provisions you want to be paid for.?
Economics really is not your forte is it.
What us your degree in ,, theatre arts or something equally useless.
Hopefully it is something that will benefit the UK , where your skills can be used for the benefit if us all.
But of course you wa t tobtake your subsidised education to a society that better suits your views.
Not very patriotic or ukipian of you is it.

Scamp Jan 11th 2017 12:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148993)
Tbh, he is a very clever man for convincing large numbers of the American voting public that he could ever pull anything like that off. Without major changes to US immigration legislation you couldn't, for example, ban an entire religion of people from entering your country based on religious beliefs alone. There was no precedent for that and it just didn't make any sense.

He's very clever or the voters are very stupid? Depends which way you look at it. I think both have merits actually.

Banning Muslims was laughable, but it's what so many wanted desperately to hear. The same as the UK with Brexit, so many appear to use their vote to silently display their dislike of Johnny Foreigner or Muslims or whatever it is this week that's causing 'OUTRAGE' in the Mail / Express.

Typical of a lot of the baby boomer generation wanting everything just handed on a plate.... you know, want a house worth half a million quid and a binman to collect the shit, but heaven forbid immigration helps raise the house prices and that binman better not be a Muslim or Romanian.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12149002)
You paid the total cost of your education then not just the heavily subsidised cost charged to UK residents.
Or did you pay the much higher fees charged to overseas students.

So now you want lower taxes.,How are the changes in UK society, training, education, helth provisions you want to be paid for.?
Economics really is not your forte is it.
What us your degree in ,, theatre arts or something equally useless.
Hopefully it is something that will benefit the UK , where your skills can be used for the benefit if us all.
But of course you wa t tobtake your subsidised education to a society that better suits your views.
Not very patriotic or ukipian of you is it.

My degree is in Computer Science. You know one of the STEM subjects. Do you consider those to be useless as well?

Whilst I earned said degree I paid into the UK tax system off the back of my income as an IT professional. You might recognise what one of them looks like since they often slightly shy or reserved, wear glasses and occasionally wear suits or smart casual attire when you serve them at lunchtimes in McDonald's.

Incidentally, when did I say that I wanted to reduce UK taxation? I want to reduce the taxes that I pay to the EU to precisely zero but I have no problem with paying into the UK system as long as those funds are well-invested by a democratically elected British government.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12149003)
He's very clever or the voters are very stupid? Depends which way you look at it. I think both have merits actually.

Banning Muslims was laughable, but it's what so many wanted desperately to hear. The same as the UK with Brexit, so many appear to use their vote to silently display their dislike of Johnny Foreigner or Muslims or whatever it is this week that's causing 'OUTRAGE' in the Mail / Express.

Typical of a lot of the baby boomer generation wanting everything just handed on a plate.... you know, want a house worth half a million quid and a binman to collect the shit, but heaven forbid immigration helps raise the house prices and that binman better not be a Muslim or Romanian.

I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. As a pro-Brexit voter myself, I voted out on the basis of tightening the many loopholes that currently exist within the British immigration system and with a view to creating a far more stable, manageable and fair system for all.

DaveLovesDee Jan 11th 2017 12:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12148988)
The UK and Gibraltar are not part of Schengen and officials here do not intend to apply any additional checks or controls, and have no obligation to do so.

Schengen changes will bring tighter border controls – Gibraltar Chronicle

The UK is also not in Schengen so how will it affect people entering and leaving the UK heading to or from Europe?

Because anyone entering the UK or Ireland (the Common Travel Area) should have these checks done by UK or Irish immigration (though Fred has said previously he was not stopped at an Irish ferry port once).


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148994)
I'm confused, do they not already do that? And if not then why the hell not?

They do, except for travel between the UK and Ireland. Though all flights into Ireland from the UK go through passport control as well.


It was my understanding that the CTA with Ireland only still existed because Ireland also refused to join Schengen. Every other border connecting a UK territory with Europe should be secured.
It has nothing to do with refusing anything.

Common Travel Area


A common travel area is in existence between Ireland and the UK (including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man). The Common Travel Area has been in operation since the 1920s but is not specifically provided for in legislation. The first legal recognition of the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the United Kingdom (UK) is contained in the Treaty of Amsterdam. The Irish Government and the UK government have agreed reciprocal visa arrangements; measures to increase the security of the external Common Travel Area border; and to share immigration data between the two countries’ immigration authorities.

EMR Jan 11th 2017 12:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149004)
My degree is in Computer Science. You know one of the STEM subjects. Do you consider those to be useless as well?

Whilst I earned said degree I paid into the UK tax system off the back of my income as an IT professional. You might recognise what one of them looks like since they often slightly shy or reserved, wear glasses and occasionally wear suits or smart casual attire when you serve them at lunchtimes in McDonald's.

Incidentally, when did I say that I wanted to reduce UK taxation? I want to reduce the taxes that I pay to the EU to precisely zero but I have no problem with paying into the UK system as long as those funds are well-invested by a democratically elected British government.

So you parents are not heavily taxed then?

Make your mind up.
As an IT professional you should be able to get a well paid job easily in the UK, , .
Competition from imigrants should not be a problem.
We do not pay any tax to the EU, where did8 you dream that one up.
I get a break down from HMRC every tear of where my tax goes, never seen any reference to the EU.

DaveLovesDee Jan 11th 2017 12:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12149000)
Yes she is. She presently lives in the UK on a permanent residence card but if you want to deport us somewhere else then please be my guest.

I don't want to deport you. I want you to stop being a hypocrite.


She works in restaurant management and whilst she does manage a lot of Europeans, tbh they have been a real thorn in her side since many of them still can't use English to the required standard and on a few occasions that lack of understanding has led to potential safety problems in the kitchen. She also has to reject a lot of European applicants simply because they have shown no English competency whatsoever at interview.
It does help if the customers can communicate with the staff, doesn't it. How did they fill in the application form?

The Europeans I work with all speak English very well, but their accents can be difficult sometimes. But they're excellent workers and always fun to work with.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12149010)
So you parents are not heavily taxed then?

Make your mind up.
As an IT professional you should be able to get a well paid job easily in the UK, , .
Competition from imigrants should not be a problem.
We do not pay any tax to the EU, where dud you dream that one up.
I get a break down from HMRC every tear of where my tax goes, never seen any reference to the EU.

Jesus Christ, OK look as other members have warned you on here before, you really shouldn't try to argue with me. You may disagree with my views and that is absolutely your right but at the end of the day that doesn't change the fact that I am notably smarter, more mature and more knowledgeable than you are.

By constantly trying to insult me and misrepresent my statements all that you are doing is making yourself look silly. Your overall appalling quality of written English really doesn't help your cause either.

Bipat Jan 11th 2017 12:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12148982)
But as those entering from the EU are also creating jobs, as seen by the 3% drop in UK unemployed numbers, wouldn't a visa system drive those job creators to other EU countries instead? Creating more UK unemployment.


If I want to hire someone skilled, I'd look for candidates who are EU nationals (including Brits, because we are EU nationals too) first, because UK and other EU nationals can start as soon as I hire them.

If I want to hire a non-EU national (or an EU national needed a work visa), I'd have to become a licensed sponsor through the Home Office, and the successful candidate would have to apply for a Tier 2 work visa (with no guarantee of getting it). And I'd have still had to advertise the job to UK nationals beforehand.

I believe the Home Office only issues a certain number of work visas per month (x), so if you're applicant (x+1) you've wasted your £600 application fee, and I've wasted 3+ months waiting for an employee I could have had actually working.

The NHS would love to train more nurses, but if the student funding isn't available, then less people get trained. The government then comes up with 'nursing on the cheap' to save costs, by employing Healthcare Assistants to do much of the work previously done by nurses. This does free up nurses to manage the increased paperwork they now have, and the increased duties they've been required to take on. But a HA is not a nurse, and patients don't always understand this (and get annoyed when they see a uniform, but have to wait while the HA goes to get a nurse to deal with the patient).

These HA's are pretty much the same as care Assistants working in Residential homes.

Job creation---the biggest investors (and job creators) from worldwide in the UK are USA, followed by France and India (equal).
Also think of all those restaurants and corner shops creating imployment for the past 50+ years.

If filling in a visa and becomming a sponsor is so difficult how is it that non-EU migrants manage at all to come? We have to sponsor any of our Indian family who visit us when we are in the UK---We manage it--we can read and write.

Health assistants in hospitals are quite different in general from assistants employed by social services.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...e-assistant%20

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12149016)
I don't want to deport you. I want you to stop being a hypocrite.



It does help if the customers can communicate with the staff, doesn't it. How did they fill in the application form?

The Europeans I work with all speak English very well, but their accents can be difficult sometimes. But they're excellent workers and always fun to work with.

It's not communicating with the customers. It is communicating within the kitchen. That is what makes the situation so dangerous. A lot of them outright refuse to conform to the rigorous health and safety standards in a British working kitchen as well because they believe that how they did things in Eastern Europe should be fine. When she politely warned one of them recently after he was witnessed mishandling meat for the umpteenth time, he unfortunately pulled a knife on her.

With regards to the application form/CV. The theory is that they get their mates or a professional service back home to do it and then just try blag through the interview giving yes or no answers to every question.

DigitalGhost Jan 11th 2017 12:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12149019)
Job creation---the biggest investors (and job creators) from worldwide in the UK are USA, followed by France and India (equal).

A lot of French companies have an appalling reputation for their treatment of workers and levels of customer service as well. I'm not sure if the British public would want many of those here really.

Red Eric Jan 11th 2017 12:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148989)
As I have said time and time again, those supposed obligations do not exist. They are a figment of a collective neo-liberal imagination.

I thought you said it was all the fault of the liberals?


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