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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 5:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12148226)
I assume the emergency has no obvious end date.

AFAIK you don't want to be a country in a state of emergency indefinitely as that can have disastrous consequences in other areas. America never usually invokes it for more than a couple of days and Britain hasn't used it since 2011 IIRC.

SultanOfSwing Jan 10th 2017 5:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148220)
The Greens maybe? Or the Lib Dems or Corbyn?

Tbh, if there is anybody more left-wing than that lot in this country then I really don't want to meet them.

The Lib-Dems are center right. Corbyn and the Greens are centre-left at best. Interesting that you see them as 'extreme' left. What would you consider the Tories to be on the right side? Centrist? What about the DUP and UKIP?

Novocastrian Jan 10th 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148231)
AFAIK you don't want to be a country in a state of emergency indefinitely as that can have disastrous consequences in other areas. ]

Then you shouldn't have voted for Brexit, or you should get out of here while you still can.

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12148245)
The Lib-Dems are center right. Corbyn and the Greens are centre-left at best. Interesting that you see them as 'extreme' left. What would you consider the Tories to be on the right side? Centrist? What about the DUP and UKIP?

I don't know much about the DUP but I would consider UKIP to be centre-right.The Lib Dems are far too pro-EU and pro-immigration to be on the right.

Lion in Winter Jan 10th 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148228)
Really? You don't think that it must at last take some level of intelligence to secure the highest office in the world with no previous experience of politics or public office whatsoever? Incidentally I do consider it slightly unfair to refer to the US public as 'uninformed'. Undoubtedly they seem place more trust in their politicians and public figures than we do a lot of the time but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes them uninformed.

I am strongly of the belief that May knew exactly what she was doing the entire time and that is likely that a backhand deal was made with Cameron prior to her support for the Remain camp being announced but I am also happy to accept that others may believe differently.

I didn't say he didn't have "some level of intelligence" - what I did say was that the level in question is not that of a genius.

As for the US public, I have lived here for many years. They are uninformed and choose to stay that way for the most part. It would be hard to imagine a country more disengaged from its government or less aware of how their country is run.

Nor do I doubt that "May knew what she was doing" - but again, that doesn't make her a genius.

Your right-wing ideology is colouring your assessment. It's never good when ideology wins out over fact.

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12148256)
Then you shouldn't have voted for Brexit, or you should get out of here while you still can.

Are we in a state of emergency right now?

Lion in Winter Jan 10th 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148257)
I don't know much about the DUP but I would consider UKIP to be centre-right.The Lib Dems are far too pro-EU and pro-immigration to be on the right.

I would consider UKIP to be nasty little right-wing halfwits.

That may just be me of course. The UK has seen off far worse and certainly far more competent in its time.

DaveLovesDee Jan 10th 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12147810)
Both Trump and May have managed to secure two of the most powerful political positions in the world. In Trump's case, his position is the single most powerful seat in the world and in May's case, she did so without ever even running for election. Regardless of how you feel about either one of them, and I personally can't stand Trump, it takes a significant level of cunning, forethought and intelligence to achieve something like that.

Trump did it the same way most Presidents in the last 30-40 years did it. With lots of money (their own or someone else's), lots of promises that won't be kept (drain the swamp, anyone?), and by blaming the last guy for things that Congress and the Senate wouldn't let the other guy implement.

May secured her position after ever other challenger for the job of Party leader dropped out. That doesn't require cunning and forethought, it just requires giving the audience what they believe they want. Aided by a compliant right-wing media.


The Brexit vote had very little to do with protecting against ISIS however IMHO a Britain divorced from the EU will be a safer one. Germany has become a progressively more dangerous country since the doors were opened and parts of France and Italy now lie in total disarray. If Britain had joined the Schengen treaty and wasn't protected by Le Touquet then it would undoubtedly be a far more dangerous country than it is now.
You say,

A Britain divorced from the EU will be a safer one.
. Can you be absolutely sure of that?

Currently, we share intelligence directly with the EU intelligence and Schengen immigration databases, which we'll no longer have direct access to post-Brexit.

Currently, we also share informatrion directly with our Common Travel Area partner, the Republic of Ireland. Post-Brexit, there won't be a CTA as the RoI will still be an EU member state but the UK won't be. There'll also have to be a secure border between the RoI and NI which will contravene the Good Friday Agreement.


Lastly, I do not consider the Tories to be right wing. They have repeatedly allowed refugees into Britain, even going to the extent of actively importing them in some cases. Do you honestly think that America would have accepted any quota of Syrians if a Republican president had been in power 18 months ago? At most the modern Conservatives are a centre-right leaning party and UKIP sit ever so slightly to the right of them. We don't really have conservative far-right politics in Britain as most people outside Europe would understand the term.
The Tories brought refugees here because our commitments under EU and UN laws, which we signed up to, and in some cases helped write.

I don't care whether the Republicans would have accepted a quota of Syrians or not, America partly caused the problem, but will never be the solution. Maybe you should read the inscription inside the Statue of Liberty.

It reads;


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
America became what it is because of those refugees and economic migrants who left their homes for the land of opportunity. Maybe they should remove the sonnet from inside the Statue.

We haven't had real far-left politics in the UK since Tony Blair & co took New Labour across to Tory-lite in the late 1990's.

Lion in Winter Jan 10th 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12148263)
Trump did it the same way most Presidents in the last 30-40 years did it. With lots of money (their own or someone else's), lots of promises that won't be kept (drain the swamp, anyone?), and by blaming the last guy for things that Congress and the Senate wouldn't let the other guy implement.

May secured her position after ever other challenger for the job of Party leader dropped out. That doesn't require cunning and forethought, it just requires giving the audience what they believe they want. Aided by a compliant right-wing media.



You say, . Can you be absolutely sure of that?

Currently, we share intelligence directly with the EU intelligence and Schengen immigration databases, which we'll no longer have direct access to post-Brexit.

Currently, we also share informatrion directly with our Common Travel Area partner, the Republic of Ireland. Post-Brexit, there won't be a CTA as the RoI will still be an EU member state but the UK won't be. There'll also have to be a secure border between the RoI and NI which will contravene the Good Friday Agreement.



The Tories brought refugees here because our commitments under EU and UN laws, which we signed up to, and in some cases helped write.

I don't care whether the Republicans would have accepted a quota of Syrians or not, America partly caused the problem, but will never be the solution. Maybe you should read the inscription inside the Statue of Liberty.

It reads;



America became what it is because of those refugees and economic migrants who left their homes for the land of opportunity. Maybe they should remove the sonnet from inside the Statue.

We haven't had real far-left politics in the UK since Tony Blair & co took New Labour across to Tory-lite in the late 1990's.


And the Statue of Liberty itself is French. Bloody foreigners.

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12148258)
I didn't say he didn't have "some level of intelligence" - what I did say was that the level in question is not that of a genius.

As for the US public, I have lived here for many years. They are uninformed and choose to stay that way for the most part. It would be hard to imagine a country more disengaged from its government or less aware of how their country is run.

Nor do I doubt that "May knew what she was doing" - but again, that doesn't make her a genius.

Your right-wing ideology is colouring your assessment. It's never good when ideology wins out over fact.

Are they not so disengaged from politics there because they're largely comfortably complacent?

I have spent some time in that country, although nowhere near to the level that you have obviously, and I have to admit that their penchant to forget that anywhere else even exists is somewhat infectious.

They don't seem to have to deal with a lot of the nonsense that the British do on a seemingly daily basis.

SultanOfSwing Jan 10th 2017 5:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148257)
I don't know much about the DUP but I would consider UKIP to be centre-right.The Lib Dems are far too pro-EU and pro-immigration to be on the right.

The DUP are hardline authoritarian (essentially the Northern Irish version of the US religious right and have muddied the waters of Unionism with their disgusting religious intolerance) and just beyond centre-right. UKIP are far right, IMO as are the modern Tories.

I'd put the Lib-Dems right about where Major's Tories were in the centre-right. Being Pro-EU does not get you thrown out of the club. Many remain voters were also Tories.

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 6:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12148263)
Trump did it the same way most Presidents in the last 30-40 years did it. With lots of money (their own or someone else's), lots of promises that won't be kept (drain the swamp, anyone?), and by blaming the last guy for things that Congress and the Senate wouldn't let the other guy implement.

May secured her position after ever other challenger for the job of Party leader dropped out. That doesn't require cunning and forethought, it just requires giving the audience what they believe they want. Aided by a compliant right-wing media.



You say, . Can you be absolutely sure of that?

Currently, we share intelligence directly with the EU intelligence and Schengen immigration databases, which we'll no longer have direct access to post-Brexit.

Currently, we also share informatrion directly with our Common Travel Area partner, the Republic of Ireland. Post-Brexit, there won't be a CTA as the RoI will still be an EU member state but the UK won't be. There'll also have to be a secure border between the RoI and NI which will contravene the Good Friday Agreement.



The Tories brought refugees here because our commitments under EU and UN laws, which we signed up to, and in some cases helped write.

I don't care whether the Republicans would have accepted a quota of Syrians or not, America partly caused the problem, but will never be the solution. Maybe you should read the inscription inside the Statue of Liberty.

It reads;



America became what it is because of those refugees and economic migrants who left their homes for the land of opportunity. Maybe they should remove the sonnet from inside the Statue.

We haven't had real far-left politics in the UK since Tony Blair & co took New Labour across to Tory-lite in the late 1990's.

America did not cause the Syria problem. Syria caused the Syria problem. Nobody told them to kick off with Asad and plunge their country into turmoil. They saw what happened in Egypt and Libya and foolishly attempted to replicate it.

I am sick of all of this leftist nonsense about so-called obligation. This country owes the people of Syria nothing and should not have accepted any asylum applications from any Syrians who were not already living in the UK at the time.

I only hope that one of those refugees who they have foolishly admitted doesn't end up harming someone because if that happens then every one of you that supported the decision to allow them in will have blood on your hands.

Lion in Winter Jan 10th 2017 6:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148269)
Are they not so disengaged from politics there because they're largely comfortably complacent?

I have spent some time in that country, although nowhere near to the level that you have obviously, and I have to admit that their penchant to forget that anywhere else even exists is somewhat infectious.

They don't seem to have to deal with a lot of the nonsense that the British do on a seemingly daily basis.

There is a huge population that is not comfortable at all. Wealth inequality is appalling, worse than the UK for sure, and the infant mortality rate is worse than pretty much every other developed nation by a long way. It's worse than Cuba's. Until Obamacare, 20 million people had no access to health insurance at all. Voter apathy is high. Why? People don't see how what their government does is related to them at all, and mainstream media won't tell them either.

Fredbargate Jan 10th 2017 6:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12148260)
Are we in a state of emergency right now?

More a state of economic boom

DigitalGhost Jan 10th 2017 6:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12148278)
The DUP are hardline authoritarian (essentially the Northern Irish version of the US religious right and have muddied the waters of Unionism with their disgusting religious intolerance) and just beyond centre-right. UKIP are far right, IMO as are the modern Tories.

I'd put the Lib-Dems right about where Major's Tories were in the centre-right. Being Pro-EU does not get you thrown out of the club. Many remain voters were also Tories.

Why would you consider UKIP to be far right? Other than being anti-EU there has never been anything particularly far right about them IMHO.


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