British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Jan 1st 2017 12:22 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12140191)
I have EHIC card, I thought it was only good for emergencies while travelling in the EU.

Thanks for the answer- I was curious because if because of Brexit some British expats move back to UK, it seems that would put an extra cost onto the NHS.

Why would you need an EHIC card , you do not live in the UK, what nationality are you.
You do seem reluctant to answer this.

EMR Jan 1st 2017 12:26 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12140173)
It's over Dick. There is no more campaign - you WON!! :thumbsup:

Now you have to get over it, move on and decide how you're going to implement your victory. And concentrate more on what's going on on your side of the fence and less of the binoculars trained on the neighbours ;)

Don't forget this week's contribution, though. Thanks :shades_smile:

Dicks going to be even more upset as May has said that her brexit will be inclusive and address the concerns of those who voted to remain , not what our ultra brexiters want.
We can expect years of complaints from bremoaners complaining that rhey were conned, cheated etc.
Its going to be a fun ride.

DaveLovesDee Jan 1st 2017 12:34 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12140178)
Can someone tell me who pays for health care of Brits who live in Spain ?

The Spanish in some cases. If the Brit has a Spanish Residence Card, I believe. It's probably similar to the system we found in Malta, and to hear in the UK.

Workers and self-employed are covered by their tax/NI paid.

Self-sufficient persons (including retirees) and students are required to have private health insurance. Which is why many elderly expats tend to return to the UK for NHS healthcare, even though as a non-resident they wouldn't have been entitled to it. Recent changes in the rules now allow expats in Europe to access the NHS without charge. They were previously the largest group of 'health tourists'.

British expats from outside Europe must pay for NHS hospital care


Expats from outside Europe who return to the UK to use NHS hospitals will be billed for 150 per cent of the cost of treatment if they don’t have sufficient insurance.

Treatment remains free for those with a European Health Insurance Card (Ehic) and UK state pensioners living in the European Economic Area (EEA).
The charges only apply to hospitals – appointments with GPs and accident and emergency treatment remain free. Patients should expect to be asked questions about their residence status in the UK.
Government U-turn on NHS access for expats


Changes designed to end “health tourism” will also see pensioners living in countries such as the USA and Canada stripped of their existing entitlement to use the health service in an emergency during a trip home.
Instead British retirees living outside the European Economic Area will not only be denied free health care while in the UK – except short term treatment in an emergency – but also face a 50 per cent punitive surcharge for the service they receive.

Even expats living in Europe will have to produce a European Health Insurance Card, issued by the country in which they live, to get free treatment.

Does the NHS refund to Spain the health care costs ?
Only for temporary visitors who have an EHI Card


How would Brexit effect the costs to the UK related to Brits who live in Spain, or those who might be prompted or need to move back ?
The Brits in Spain tend to be older, with a larger percentage of retirees than Spanish nations living in the UK. Those retirees would be more likely to need long-term NHS care sooner than the younger Spaniards.

How Brexit will change the current system is one of the many things that will be discussed in the 2 years between Article 50 being triggered and an actual Brexit. It isn't helped by Theresa May's insistence that she won't be guaranteeing the rights of EU nationals already living and working here.

morpeth Jan 1st 2017 12:36 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12140193)
Why would you need an EHIC card , you do not live in the UK, what nationality are you.
You do seem reluctant to answer this.

Didn't answer before because I found it amusing you were so sure of what my nationality was and where I lived.


morpeth Jan 1st 2017 12:46 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12139718)
You are certainly right, good news has nothing to do with Brexit.
The only negatve news that can really be attributed to thr brexit vote is the fall in sterling and the effects it is and will have on the economy, hardly inginificant.
As brexit has yet to happen there is no evidence yet good or bad.

Excellent post.

It seems there will be a lot of consequences that maybe not thought of or calculated well. I wonder what the cost will be for 2 to 10 years of disentangling the UK from the EU vs perceived economic benefits by some.

Red Eric Jan 1st 2017 1:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12140196)

Does the NHS refund to Spain the health care costs ?
Only for temporary visitors who have an EHI Card

Also for any resident covered by another country's social security system (eg pensioners or people on disability benefits - there may be others) :)

jimenato Jan 1st 2017 1:04 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12140196)
The Spanish in some cases. If the Brit has a Spanish Residence Card, I believe. It's probably similar to the system we found in Malta, and to hear in the UK.

Workers and self-employed are covered by their tax/NI paid.

Self-sufficient persons (including retirees) and students are required to have private health insurance. Which is why many elderly expats tend to return to the UK for NHS healthcare, even though as a non-resident they wouldn't have been entitled to it. Recent changes in the rules now allow expats in Europe to access the NHS without charge. They were previously the largest group of 'health tourists'.

British expats from outside Europe must pay for NHS hospital care



Government U-turn on NHS access for expats





Only for temporary visitors who have an EHI Card



The Brits in Spain tend to be older, with a larger percentage of retirees than Spanish nations living in the UK. Those retirees would be more likely to need long-term NHS care sooner than the younger Spaniards.

How Brexit will change the current system is one of the many things that will be discussed in the 2 years between Article 50 being triggered and an actual Brexit. It isn't helped by Theresa May's insistence that she won't be guaranteeing the rights of EU nationals already living and working here.

DLD - UK pensioners living in Spain have their healthcare costs covered by the UK government. A sum is paid every year - currently somewhere near 4000 Euros for each OAP. Their EHICS are also provided by the UK. I believe that UK pensioners living in Spain can have free treatment in the UK on the NHS. They must have done the right things (something to do with form S1 I think) to qualify for all this.

Morpeth - Yes - EHICS are for holidaymakers.

Dick Dasterdly Jan 1st 2017 2:30 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-cables-show

The president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations, leaked documents reveal.

Years’ worth of confidential German diplomatic cables provide a candid account of Luxembourg’s obstructive manoeuvres inside one of Brussels’ most secretive committees.

The code of conduct group on business taxation was set up almost 19 years ago to prevent member states from being played off against one another by increasingly powerful multinational businesses, eager to shift profits across borders and avoid tax.

Little has been known until now about the workings of the committee, which has been meeting since 1998, after member states agreed a code of conduct on tax policies and pledged not to engage in “harmful competition” with one another.

However, the leaked cables reveal how a small handful of countries have used their seats on the committee to frustrate concerted EU action and protect their own tax regimes.

Efforts by a majority of member states to curb aggressive tax planning and to rein in predatory tax policies were regularly delayed, diluted or derailed by the actions of a few of the EU’s smallest members, frequently led by Luxembourg.

Analysis Luxembourg tax files: how tiny state rubber-stamped tax avoidance on an industrial scale
Leaked documents show that one of the EU’s smallest states helped multinationals save millions in tax, to the detriment of its neighbours and allies

The leaked papers, shared with the Guardian and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists by the German radio group NDR, are highly embarrassing for Juncker, who served as Luxembourg’s prime minister from 1995 until the end of 2013. During that period he also acted as finance and treasury minister, taking a close interest in tax policy.

DaveLovesDee Jan 1st 2017 2:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12140237)
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-cables-show

The president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations, leaked documents reveal.

Years’ worth of confidential German diplomatic cables provide a candid account of Luxembourg’s obstructive manoeuvres inside one of Brussels’ most secretive committees.

The code of conduct group on business taxation was set up almost 19 years ago to prevent member states from being played off against one another by increasingly powerful multinational businesses, eager to shift profits across borders and avoid tax.

Little has been known until now about the workings of the committee, which has been meeting since 1998, after member states agreed a code of conduct on tax policies and pledged not to engage in “harmful competition” with one another.

However, the leaked cables reveal how a small handful of countries have used their seats on the committee to frustrate concerted EU action and protect their own tax regimes.

Efforts by a majority of member states to curb aggressive tax planning and to rein in predatory tax policies were regularly delayed, diluted or derailed by the actions of a few of the EU’s smallest members, frequently led by Luxembourg.

Analysis Luxembourg tax files: how tiny state rubber-stamped tax avoidance on an industrial scale
Leaked documents show that one of the EU’s smallest states helped multinationals save millions in tax, to the detriment of its neighbours and allies

The leaked papers, shared with the Guardian and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists by the German radio group NDR, are highly embarrassing for Juncker, who served as Luxembourg’s prime minister from 1995 until the end of 2013. During that period he also acted as finance and treasury minister, taking a close interest in tax policy.

Which has nothing to do with Brexit.

Red Eric Jan 1st 2017 6:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The frequent argument used to justify tax avoidance by individuals is that there is nothing illegal about any of it and that is just as true in the case of these Luxembourg deals.

However, any alteration which prevents this sort of behaviour amongst member states in the future will, of course, open the door even wider than it already is (and let's face it, the UK does already have something of a reputation in this area) to the UK using predatory tax arrangements to lure companies to headquarter themselves there post Brexit.

Something which will no doubt be applauded by some of those who've done all the tut tutting on the umpteen previous occasions this Luxembourg secret has been revealed at great length.

morpeth Jan 1st 2017 8:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12140318)
The frequent argument used to justify tax avoidance by individuals is that there is nothing illegal about any of it and that is just as true in the case of these Luxembourg deals.

However, any alteration which prevents this sort of behaviour amongst member states in the future will, of course, open the door even wider than it already is (and let's face it, the UK does already have something of a reputation in this area) to the UK using predatory tax arrangements to lure companies to headquarter themselves there post Brexit.

Something which will no doubt be applauded by some of those who've done all the tut tutting on the umpteen previous occasions this Luxembourg secret has been revealed at great length.

I must be missing something. When this fellow was prime minister of Luxembourg wasn't it his duty to do the best for Luxembourg, whereas once in Brussels didnt his position there have different duties ?

Dick Dasterdly Jan 1st 2017 10:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12140415)
I must be missing something. When this fellow was prime minister of Luxembourg wasn't it his duty to do the best for Luxembourg, whereas once in Brussels didnt his position there have different duties ?

https://www.theguardian.com/business...nce-luxembourg


Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Union executive, has said he would lead a campaign against tax avoidance and evasion, after dominating Luxembourg politics for 20 years during which the Grand Duchy got rich on the most systematic tax avoidance practices known in Europe.

Less than a fortnight into his five-year term as the new president of the European commission, Juncker broke his silence on revelations in the Guardian and other newspapers showing how the Luxembourg tax authorities exploited complex loopholes to enable multinationals to minimise their tax exposure, depriving other EU countries of tens of billions in revenue.

DaveLovesDee Jan 1st 2017 10:36 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12140471)
Less than a fortnight into his five-year term as the new president of the European commission, Juncker broke his silence on revelations in the Guardian and other newspapers showing how the Luxembourg tax authorities exploited complex loopholes to enable multinationals to minimise their tax exposure, depriving other EU countries of tens of billions in revenue.

loophole
ˈluːphəʊl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
"they exploited tax loopholes"

Loopholes are not illegal. It is every taxpayer's right to minimise the amount of tax they pay. It's especially part of a company director's duty to shareholders. If the rules are lax, tighten the rules.

morpeth Jan 2nd 2017 7:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12140471)
https://www.theguardian.com/business...nce-luxembourg


Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Union executive, has said he would lead a campaign against tax avoidance and evasion, after dominating Luxembourg politics for 20 years during which the Grand Duchy got rich on the most systematic tax avoidance practices known in Europe.

Less than a fortnight into his five-year term as the new president of the European commission, Juncker broke his silence on revelations in the Guardian and other newspapers showing how the Luxembourg tax authorities exploited complex loopholes to enable multinationals to minimise their tax exposure, depriving other EU countries of tens of billions in revenue.

Maybe I phrased my question poorly. Junker as prime minister of Luxembourg certainly should have looked after the interests of his country. Junker as head of the European executive certainly then should do what he is paid to do, which is to benefit of EU though human nature he will probably lean in many instances to policies that wouldn't hurt his country too much.

I don't see what the issue is. ( The little I have seen of Junker he seems to epitomize why some people are opposed to the EU a very disagreeable person in my opinion).

Fredbargate Jan 2nd 2017 8:13 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12140202)
Excellent post.

It seems there will be a lot of consequences that maybe not thought of or calculated well. I wonder what the cost will be for 2 to 10 years of disentangling the UK from the EU vs perceived economic benefits by some.

Thank you morpeth for confirming my post 9857 was correct


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