British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Dec 12th 2016 5:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12127517)
I agree to some extent. The original campaign and Chair-- Nigel-Lawson, did not mention immigration. The campaign was 'highjacked' by Farage who stirred up the immigration issue. The hope that immigration would be 'skills based' then became a Brexit aim.
Yes, 'free movement' is an essential part of EU membership.
However only the UK has a long history of immigration from many Commonwealth countries which makes their situation different.

Lawson and co were replaced because without the focus on migration the remain vote would have walked it.
Why because the turnout in many brexit areas would have been lower.
Sovereignty, Lisbon treaty etc would have been of little interest to many of the electorate.
If as is likely the government cannot meet its migration targets then many who voted brexit will make the government pay at the ballot box.
If labour does not get its act together then UKIP will benefit in areas of high migration where ever they originally came from.

At least the government has started to ban extreme rightwing groups.

morpeth Dec 12th 2016 5:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12127590)
The figure quoted are also Nett migration which reflects those who leave the UK.
Ie the last months figure was over 300,000 nett migration but almost double total inward migration.

So 300,000 over 12 months reported last month as net migration ? So in 10 years at that rate 5% of UK population would have arrived within that 10 year period ?

morpeth Dec 12th 2016 5:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Bipat;12127481]People are opposed to uncontrolled immigration. A survey was carried out by the Times of India regarding the Desi vote, the results were the same--a leave the EU majority.

There have always been people opposed to immigrants in general but they are a minority.

As you say there are those that hide their views, see my above post --what I term C of E vicar syndrome--they don't like immigrants but know that is wrong, so go out of there way to be over- friendly!!:lol:
I personally prefer honesty at least you know where you are!

Priti Patel interview: It's not 'racist' to worry about immigration
-------------------------------------------------------

Or maybe some people are opposed to immigration but say little because (a) they don't want to be classified as racist (b) they feel it is impolite to say so (c) they are resigned to situation but don't particularly like it.

I don't know answer or have much of an opinion as I haven't spent a lot of time in UK last five years, I just assumed some percentage of Brexit vote wasn't specifically because of EU migration but any migration at current levels.

Bipat Dec 12th 2016 6:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=morpeth;12127635]

-------------------------------------------------------

Or maybe some people are opposed to immigration but say little because (a) they don't want to be classified as racist (b) they feel it is impolite to say so (c) they are resigned to situation but don't particularly like it.

I don't know answer or have much of an opinion as I haven't spent a lot of time in UK last five years, I just assumed some percentage of Brexit vote wasn't specifically because of EU migration but any migration at current levels.
Yes there will be some people who have the views you describe.
Immigration has been happening in the UK for centuries.
I think there are only a minority of people who are against 'immigration' as such. They are aware of the great advantages it has brought.

Why are you so keen to think that immigration has not been a benefit to the UK?

You mention "current levels" and this is seen as a problem by many,
and also the lack of controls. As I said above, those of immigrant origin share these concerns.

morpeth Dec 12th 2016 6:20 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Bipat;12127654]

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127635)

Yes there will be some people who have the views you describe.
Immigration has been happening in the UK for centuries.
I think there are only a minority of people who are against 'immigration' as such. They are aware of the great advantages it has brought.

Why are you so keen to think that immigration has not been a benefit to the UK?

You mention "current levels" and this is seen as a problem by many,
and also the lack of controls. As I said above, those of immigrant origin share these concerns.

I am not "keen" on anything on this particular issue but to understand more. Maybe it has been a benefit maybe it hasn't, how else does one learn except by asking questions ? I do find it interesting the differences that seem to be playing out between the UK experience and what is happening in some European countries, and wondering about the implications for the future.

Isnt the immigration happening now at a much higher rate than before ? You mean in prior centuries ? Where my family from seems before WWII only immigration was from Scotland or Ireland to work in the pits, and skilled miners from Cornwall or Wales. There was one Italian family that sold ice cream, grandson still has the same shop.

Bipat Dec 12th 2016 6:36 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=morpeth;12127662]

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12127654)

I am not "keen" on anything on this particular issue but to understand more. Maybe it has been a benefit maybe it hasn't, how else does one learn except by asking questions ? I do find it interesting the differences that seem to be playing out between the UK experience and what is happening in some European countries, and wondering about the implications for the future.

Isnt the immigration happening now at a much higher rate than before ? You mean in prior centuries ? Where my family from seems before WWII only immigration was from Scotland or Ireland to work in the pits, and skilled miners from Cornwall or Wales. There was one Italian family that sold ice cream, grandson still has the same shop.

I think you need to read some history.
Yes, as I said above there are genuine concerns about present levels of immigration.

As to post WW11, the new NHS would have had difficulty getting started without immigrant doctors, nurses who still make up a large proportion of workers also now, their children.
Who would have driven the buses, worked in the factories post war. Who now work all hours in corner shops.
The artists, actors, sports people, teachers, lawyers, university academics, scientists etc etc.
I find your "benefit may be it hasn't" rather repulsive to read.

EMR Dec 12th 2016 6:44 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Bipat;12127672]

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127662)

I think you need to read some history.
Yes, as I said above there are genuine concerns about present levels of immigration.

As to post WW11, the new NHS would have had difficulty getting started without immigrant doctors, nurses who still make up a large proportion of workers also now, their children.
Who would have driven the buses, worked in the factories post war. Who now work all hours in corner shops.
The artists, actors, sports people, teachers, lawyers, university academics, scientists etc etc.
I find your "benefit may be it hasn't" rather repulsive to read.

Well said Bipat, very well said.
The US is a country founded by immigrants , wave after wave of immigrants as Morpeth should know.

Red Eric Dec 12th 2016 7:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127622)
So 300,000 over 12 months reported last month as net migration ? So in 10 years at that rate 5% of UK population would have arrived within that 10 year period ?

Not really. The nett migration figure has risen and fallen over the past 10 years - for example it peaked at 320,000 in 2005 and didn't reach that figure again until 2015. At times during the intervening period it was as low as around half that.


Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127635)
I don't know answer or have much of an opinion as I haven't spent a lot of time in UK last five years, I just assumed some percentage of Brexit vote wasn't specifically because of EU migration but any migration at current levels.

Yes, that would be so completely illogical as to stand a very real chance of being true.

EMR Dec 12th 2016 7:57 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Bipat;12127672]

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127662)

I think you need to read some history.
Yes, as I said above there are genuine concerns about present levels of immigration.

As to post WW11, the new NHS would have had difficulty getting started without immigrant doctors, nurses who still make up a large proportion of workers also now, their children.
Who would have driven the buses, worked in the factories post war. Who now work all hours in corner shops.
The artists, actors, sports people, teachers, lawyers, university academics, scientists etc etc.
I find your "benefit may be it hasn't" rather repulsive to read.

Well said Bipat, very well said.
The US is a country founded by immigrants , wave after wave of immigrants as Morpeth should know.

Dick Dasterdly Dec 12th 2016 10:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The ongoing tragic situations in countries like Sweden, Germany and France bear absolutely no comparison with immigration effects over the last century or more.

They had plenty of advance warning of the likely detrimental effects of uncontrolled immigration more than a year ago and chose to ignore it.

Now too late in the day some countries have taken action, while in Germany, Merkel is belatedly attempting a U turn.

She is faced with the joint problem of trying to throw failed asylum seekers out of the country plus trying to find work for those who have been accepted.

Unfortunately due partly to recent unsavoury events, increasing crime, terrorist activities, safety and security risks, German companies are now very reluctant to take on unskilled staff from unknown backgrounds with limited language abilities.

Trying to sweep the problems under the carpet has already failed miserably, so its little wonder some Germans are now wondering where their future lies, whilst the overloaded police service is finding its task almost impossible, stuck as it is between a rock and a hard place.

morpeth Dec 12th 2016 11:04 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Bipat;12127672]

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127662)

I think you need to read some history.
Yes, as I said above there are genuine concerns about present levels of immigration.

As to post WW11, the new NHS would have had difficulty getting started without immigrant doctors, nurses who still make up a large proportion of workers also now, their children.
Who would have driven the buses, worked in the factories post war. Who now work all hours in corner shops.
The artists, actors, sports people, teachers, lawyers, university academics, scientists etc etc.
I find your "benefit may be it hasn't" rather repulsive to read.

I do not know why repulsive if one writes one doesn't have a firm opinion one way or another. You obviously have very firm views, shouldn't someone who doesn't have those views be open-minded to consider all points of view ?

I don't dispute what you list as the benefits. In fact what I am curious about is why in my opinion immigration has been such a negative in the Nordic countries, and in UK it seems from my limited knowledge ( as I haven't lived there for a while) to have worked so much better.

I realize a sensitive topic for you, and I haven't the slightest desire to write something "repulsive". As you know from my prior posts I have said quite clearly I haven't lived in the UK for a while; and I certainly haven't studied any sociological reports or government statistics nor any economic history of Britain subsequent to WWII.

morpeth Dec 12th 2016 11:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=EMR;12127740]

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12127672)

Well said Bipat, very well said.
The US is a country founded by immigrants , wave after wave of immigrants as Morpeth should know.

We all know the US was founded by immigrants. So ? Does that mean in the Swedish situation immigration would work the same or as well at least historically of integration as it did in the US ? Or that Germany is seeing that perhaps high levels of immigration may be causing more problems now and in the future that our dear friend Merkel didn't think of before ?

Lion in Winter Dec 12th 2016 11:30 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12127860)

Does that mean in the Swedish situation immigration would work the same or as well at least historically of integration as it did in the US ? Or that Germany is seeing that perhaps high levels of immigration may be causing more problems now and in the future that our dear friend Merkel didn't think of before ?

If you repeat it often enough, it will be true...

mrken30 Dec 13th 2016 12:54 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
If you can educated the population including immigrants, the better off the economy will be. It's the falling standards in education, not so much immigration that's the problem.

Vexcore Dec 13th 2016 12:55 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Remember guys/girls that Gina Miller bitch represents everything I voted against. I want to leave the E.U. If the government won’t obey the will of the people, then why should the people obey the rules of government? The contract is being broken. Think about that.

The door swings both ways.....


Let's just crack on and get the ball rolling, we all know it's about leaving the EUROPEAN UNION' hence no more single market bollocks and total control and so on yadda yadda yadda


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