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DaveLovesDee Dec 10th 2016 12:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12126156)
Troubling unreasonable imposition of sanctions.

I know of a few people locally who recently lost jobs, and one of those hasn't registered for benefits as he can't be bothered with all the crap he'd get through the Job Centre.

He has a degree in business and got asked to leave his last job because he sent the manager a detailed letter on how to improve the operation of the business.

Employees still there say that the manager starting implementing the suggestions a week after firing the letter-writer. I guess some people can't stand the competition.

But he has 2 interviews next week on word of mouth. One of which is with a different store of the same company he was fired from.

morpeth Dec 10th 2016 12:21 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12126149)
That BOE report's here : http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/resea...015/swp574.pdf


But if the rise is a mere 0.5% in 15 years and the price is, say, 5% of GDP, would it have been a worthwhile exercise, especially given that there are other more efficient and more certain ways of raising wages?

Trying to pull up that report.

I doubt the .5% figure as I question the criteria that may have been used as I know in the United States is it very clear the effect of importing lesser skilled or educated workers ( whether legal or not) has been negative on wages for many in skilled or semi-skilled jobs. I don't know criteria used in that report.

Quite right there are a variety of means that could be employed to raise wages, though generally the more government intervenes the potential for unforeseen consequences, or government takes baby steps for political reasons and not bold enough in implementing changes.

EMR Dec 10th 2016 12:36 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12126165)
Trying to pull up that report.

I doubt the .5% figure as I question the criteria that may have been used as I know in the United States is it very clear the effect of importing lesser skilled or educated workers ( whether legal or not) has been negative on wages for many in skilled or semi-skilled jobs. I don't know criteria used in that report.

Quite right there are a variety of means that could be employed to raise wages, though generally the more government intervenes the potential for unforeseen consequences, or government takes baby steps for political reasons and not bold enough in implementing changes.

Your US,UK comparison is only relevant if the US also has a labour and skills shortage like the UK.
Does it ?

Red Eric Dec 10th 2016 12:45 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126162)

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12126145)

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126109)
Marxist economies do have fixed wages and prices, thst is why their economies fail.
Central control does not work.

What about Vietnam? Or China, come to that?

They are neither, they are rampant capitalism but still under a one party state whose senior members do very well from their economies.

China grew fast because it was open & socialist, not closed & capitalist

EMR Dec 10th 2016 1:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I do not think that there is anyone who has followed events in the last decade who could describe China as an open society.
Internet access restricted, no freedom of religion, no freedom of expression, political prisonerx, repression in Tibet.
That is not socialism.

Red Eric Dec 10th 2016 1:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12126165)
Trying to pull up that report.

I doubt the .5% figure as I question the criteria that may have been used as I know in the United States is it very clear the effect of importing lesser skilled or educated workers ( whether legal or not) has been negative on wages for many in skilled or semi-skilled jobs. I don't know criteria used in that report.

I presume you're qualified in some way to dismiss the findings of a group of researchers who spent a great deal of time gathering and analysing data and publishing their findings? Even those who didn't approach the task with the evident intent of finding one thing or another (as they might, perhaps, if the report was sponsored by an industry lobby). What you call flaws might well be what the researchers set out in their preambles as suppositions or premises on which their forecasts are based - in the case of the NIESR's research, for example, they took several different scenarios and modelled results on the basis of each for the purposes of comparison. And it was fully admitted that the figures are highly uncertain but nevertheless do provide a useful guide to the potential impact of Brexit. But that is forecasting the future. The BoE report was research into the present and the past and therefore much more likely to be accurate since it used actual data.

There's some comment here on that BoE report from Jonathan Portes of the NIESR (who produced the other report) How small is small? The impact of immigration on UK wages | National Institute of Economic and Social Research


Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12126165)
Quite right there are a variety of means that could be employed to raise wages, though generally the more government intervenes the potential for unforeseen consequences, or government takes baby steps for political reasons and not bold enough in implementing changes.

The government spends a great deal of time commissioning and reviewing research and debating and passing laws. Some people don't like "government intervention" but as far as I'm concerned it's what they're there for.

Red Eric Dec 10th 2016 1:10 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126182)
I do not think that there is anyone who has followed events in the last decade who could describe China as an open society.
Internet access restricted, no freedom of religion, no freedom of expression, political prisonerx, repression in Tibet.
That is not socialism.

I don't disagree with you. However, we were talking specifically about economics.

EMR Dec 10th 2016 1:26 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12126188)
I don't disagree with you. However, we were talking specifically about economics.

You cannot isolate economics from the form of government.
The economy of China is still centrally controlled, the Chinese billionaire busixnessmen owe all to their support and patronage of the political and military structures.
It is however a model that seems to work providing growth contnues but once it stops, who knows ?

Red Eric Dec 10th 2016 1:31 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126197)
You cannot isolate economics from the form of government.

But you did - look

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126109)
Marxist economies do have fixed wages and prices, thst is why their economies fail.
Central control does not work.

;)

Red Eric Dec 10th 2016 1:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12126023)
The remoaning continues

A British lawyer has launched a drive to raise funds for a court case in Ireland to find out if the process of Britain leaving the EU could be halted.
Jolyon Maugham QC wants the case to go to the European Court of Justice for a ruling on whether British MPs could reject a Brexit deal after it is done.
He wants to raise £70,000 in donations to start proceedings.
The case will also raise the possibility that Article 50 has in fact been triggered already.
Mr Maugham says he anticipates that UK MEPs will be the plaintiffs in the court action against the Irish government and EU institutions for alleged breaches of Article 50.
BBC

That's not making me moan. Seems to be a cause of consternation for you, though ;)


Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126056)
When was article 50 triggered.
You must know even if over 65million others of us do not.

The possibility is mentioned in the quote TGA posted - I've highlighted it for you. The rest of the article's here :

Funds sought for Brexit court case in Ireland - BBC News

DaveLovesDee Dec 10th 2016 1:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12126165)
I doubt the .5% figure as I question the criteria that may have been used as I know in the United States is it very clear the effect of importing lesser skilled or educated workers ( whether legal or not) has been negative on wages for many in skilled or semi-skilled jobs. I don't know criteria used in that report.

That's about as equivalent to me saying there'd be life on mars because humans survive on earth.

One does not equal the other.

EMR Dec 10th 2016 1:54 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12126203)
But you did - look


;)

Central control of a marxist economy, China Vietnam are not.
marxist economies.
They were and they failed.
They have free enterprise but whose direction is managed from the centre .
Marxism is public control of the means of production from start to finsh.
China and Vietnam is more give us a share and you make as much money as you like providing you accept the limits on personal freedoms that will not be relaxed.
I am not sure how you now describe them, certainly not socialist but neither pure marxist.

morpeth Dec 10th 2016 9:24 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12126170)
Your US,UK comparison is only relevant if the US also has a labour and skills shortage like the UK.
Does it ?

My posts fairly consistent that I do not know enough about UK to judge, just asking questions, Specifically I questioned the ".5%" figure for the report if it used same sort of models used for similar reports in the US, if it didn't then a different matter.

I do not know enough to answer your question re the issue of skills shortage in UK and relationship to type of immigration and migrant workers currently.

TGA Dec 11th 2016 6:49 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Bitter Remoaner Gina Miller brands historic Commons vote approving Brexit 'IRRELEVANT'
The utter contempt of this vile split ars3. Contempt towards the will of the British people and contempt towards the elected government.


BREXIT blocker Gina Miller has outrageously branded a Commons vote to approve the triggering of Article 50 as “irrelevant”.
Brexit: Gina Miller brands historic Commons vote 'irrelevant' | UK | News | Daily Express

Red Eric Dec 11th 2016 6:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Here is that NIESR report which I haven't previously provided a link to :

The Economic Impact of Brexit-induced Reductions in Migration


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