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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Scamp Dec 6th 2016 6:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12122469)
Only according to the usual crowd. Fact is, Renzi lost his referendum (as had been widely predicted) and that was due to qualms on all sides about the proposals. There may have been an element of it having been turned into a popularity vote on him personally but the 2 "anti-establishment" parties don't have majority support, despite the capital that's being made of this by the far right in, and more particularly outside, Italy. Even if it precipitated an election, which is not the strongest of several possibilities at the moment, neither would come out of it with a workable mandate. And only one of them is actually anti-EU.

So turning that into "this was a vote against the EU" is all a bit far-fetched (not that you're doing that Scamp, I know. It's the others ;))

To be honest, I think my statement can apply to Italy politically for centuries...

Red Eric Dec 6th 2016 7:14 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12122409)
Unlike the remoaners, who have demonstrated on here a desire to see a free UK fall on its face ,brexiters would love to see a thriving "Europe"

rubbish

Nobody wants to see the UK fall on its face, for any reason whatsoever. Discussing possible outcomes - including factoring in pessimistic forecasts from some quarters - is part and parcel of having a realistic look at the current position and assessing what might come of it and whether it was a good or a bad result for the UK.

Hoping to see the collapse of the entire EU project, on the other hand, comes across as part spite and part fear. Claims made during the referendum by the Leave campaigns were that a) the UK would be able to remain part of the Single Market even if it left the EU and b) that EU member states do not even make up a majority of European countries let alone the rest of the world so there's a vast panoply of other countries to trade with even if a deal between the UK and the EU wasn't possible. Fine - if the UK wants or wanted to regard the EU as nothing more nor less than a favourable trade deal, easily replicated or replaced from outside the EU then it's now time for the claims to be proven or for someone to admit there was a bit of mis-selling going on.

For the rest of the EU, it's about a lot more than that. The problem with viewing it through the prism of the UK's Eurosceptic press and the likes of Breitbart and Guido is that they overaccentuate the discontent and completely ignore the stability generated by the fact that the majority of EU member states are perfectly content with many aspects of the EU and are prepared to a) compromise and b) negotiate in order to reach consensus on those areas where they have any misgivings. And the most important distinction, that between where national law and community law are responsible for one issue or another, is definitely presented differently away from those eurosceptic sources which, although undeniably present throughout the EU do not seem to dominate in the way they do in the UK. There are countries where politics, both internal and external, is taken seriously enough for matters to be discussed and debated at length and in public rather than presented as some kind of Punch'n'Judy sideshow in sensationalist rags and on fringe websites. There is an appreciation in those countries of the overall benefits of belonging to the EU, not just a totting up of whether the direct grants is equal to or less than the contributions. But you have to belong to the club in order to use the facilities - unless you want to pay double the price for half the access as a guest member or something. I guess we'll find out what the UK thinks is acceptable next year and how that's received across the Channel.

EMR Dec 6th 2016 1:26 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Sterling rises as investors bet on Government losing supreme court appeal. ( Reuters)

Dick Dasterdly Dec 6th 2016 1:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12122726)
Sterling rises as investors bet on Government losing supreme court appeal. ( Reuters)


Euro surge halts sterling run towards five-month high | Reuters

EMR Dec 6th 2016 3:12 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12122757)

Old info from you Dick, check out this afternoon.
Do keep up, if you can that is.

amideislas Dec 6th 2016 3:51 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12122493)
rubbish

Nobody wants to see the UK fall on its face, for any reason whatsoever. Discussing possible outcomes - including factoring in pessimistic forecasts from some quarters - is part and parcel of having a realistic look at the current position and assessing what might come of it and whether it was a good or a bad result for the UK.

Hoping to see the collapse of the entire EU project, on the other hand, comes across as part spite and part fear. Claims made during the referendum by the Leave campaigns were that a) the UK would be able to remain part of the Single Market even if it left the EU and b) that EU member states do not even make up a majority of European countries let alone the rest of the world so there's a vast panoply of other countries to trade with even if a deal between the UK and the EU wasn't possible. Fine - if the UK wants or wanted to regard the EU as nothing more nor less than a favourable trade deal, easily replicated or replaced from outside the EU then it's now time for the claims to be proven or for someone to admit there was a bit of mis-selling going on.

For the rest of the EU, it's about a lot more than that. The problem with viewing it through the prism of the UK's Eurosceptic press and the likes of Breitbart and Guido is that they overaccentuate the discontent and completely ignore the stability generated by the fact that the majority of EU member states are perfectly content with many aspects of the EU and are prepared to a) compromise and b) negotiate in order to reach consensus on those areas where they have any misgivings. And the most important distinction, that between where national law and community law are responsible for one issue or another, is definitely presented differently away from those eurosceptic sources which, although undeniably present throughout the EU do not seem to dominate in the way they do in the UK. There are countries where politics, both internal and external, is taken seriously enough for matters to be discussed and debated at length and in public rather than presented as some kind of Punch'n'Judy sideshow in sensationalist rags and on fringe websites. There is an appreciation in those countries of the overall benefits of belonging to the EU, not just a totting up of whether the direct grants is equal to or less than the contributions. But you have to belong to the club in order to use the facilities - unless you want to pay double the price for half the access as a guest member or something. I guess we'll find out what the UK thinks is acceptable next year and how that's received across the Channel.


There is unquestionably far more anti-EU fear and loathing in the UK than anywhere else. No, I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, but in the UK, it's like a religion.

Here in Europe, of course there's grumbling about this and that, and like Britain, it's usually blamed on Brussels even when it has nothing to do with Brussels, but Europeans are generally feeling improvement over say, 5 years ago. In my patch(es), it just keeps getting better. Nothing's perfect, and never will be, but things aren't anywhere near as bad as the British tabloids make it out to be.

Britain needs to shit or get off the pot. Leave or don't leave. Those are the choices. Choose one, and move on, please.

EMR Dec 6th 2016 4:00 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12122863)
There is unquestionably far more anti-EU fear and loathing in the UK than anywhere else. No, I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, but in the UK, it's like a religion.

Here in Europe, of course there's grumbling about this and that, and like Britain, it's usually blamed on Brussels even when it has nothing to do with Brussels, but Europeans are generally feeling improvement over say, 5 years ago. In my patch(es), it just keeps getting better. Nothing's perfect, and never will be, but things aren't anywhere near as bad as the British tabloids make it out to be.

Britain needs to shit or get off the pot. Leave or don't leave. Those are the choices. Choose one, and move on, please.

Just look at the reaction from May to the statements from various EU leaders in the last 24 hours.
Now its going to be a " red white and blue brexit.."
What next re hashes of Churchills ww2 speeches.

Dick Dasterdly Dec 6th 2016 10:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Sounds good to me, though I imagine it will upset Ami's applecart,.... again. :rofl:

TGA Dec 7th 2016 4:53 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Brilliant move by TM here. She has her knockers be she pulled a proper flanker here!!
Brexit Day! Historic moment as MPs to vote on EU exit TODAY after May challenges remoaners | Politics | News | Daily Express

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...heresa-May.jpg

Red Eric Dec 7th 2016 6:35 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12123386)
Brilliant move by TM here. She has her knockers be she pulled a proper flanker here!!


2British informal, dated A trick or swindle:

‘he's certainly pulled a flanker on the army’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/flanker

I think the more correct term in this case, though, is "climbdown" :

climbdown

noun

British

A withdrawal from a position taken up in argument or negotiation:


‘a humiliating climbdown by the government over economic policy’

More example sentences
It has been forced into an embarrassing climbdown and humiliating surrender.’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/climbdown

Red Eric Dec 7th 2016 7:04 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12122425)
Nigel Farage on shortlist for Time magazine's person of the year award.

He gets my vote!!
Nigel Farage on shortlist for Time magazine's person of the year award

I can't think of anyone more deserving.

Not everybody's so keen - not even those who you might wrongly assume would be big fans (like Austrian far right Freedom Party's Norbert Hofer, the prospect of whose presidency BrexiTrumperFaragistas were prematurely ejaculating over up until last Sunday) :

Hofer had promised to call a referendum on EU membership if the bloc of states took further steps towards integration, while also stating that he believed that Austria was better off in the EU. Van der Bellen had run his second campaign on a decisively pro-European ticket, with posters proclaiming that a vote for him meant “no to Öxit”.

Anton Mahdalik, a Freedom party member of the Vienna city council, criticised former Ukip leader Nigel Farage for contributing to the party’s defeat after claiming on Fox News that Hofer would hold a referendum on Austria leaving the EU. “That didn’t help us, it hindered us,” he said, saying that an overwhelming majority of Austrians support EU membership.


Hofer himself described Farage’s comments as a “crass misjudgment”, adding that “it doesn’t fill me with joy when someone meddles from outside”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ntial-election

EMR Dec 7th 2016 7:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Farage should be VIZ man of the year , he look and acts like a character from that comic..

Assanah Dec 7th 2016 7:44 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12122863)

Britain needs to shit or get off the pot. Leave or don't leave. Those are the choices. Choose one, and move on, please.

Exactly, the EU is ready to receive the notification. Then negotiations will begin and we will see what will be left of the Britain- EU bond.

TGA Dec 7th 2016 8:01 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12122863)
There is unquestionably far more anti-EU fear and loathing in the UK than anywhere else. No, I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, but in the UK, it's like a religion.

Here in Europe, of course there's grumbling about this and that, and like Britain, it's usually blamed on Brussels even when it has nothing to do with Brussels, but Europeans are generally feeling improvement over say, 5 years ago. In my patch(es), it just keeps getting better. Nothing's perfect, and never will be, but things aren't anywhere near as bad as the British tabloids make it out to be.

Britain needs to shit or get off the pot. Leave or don't leave. Those are the choices. Choose one, and move on, please.

We chose to get off the sh!t pot. It's a case of jumping through burocratic hoops and dealing with some cry baby remoaners now.

EMR Dec 7th 2016 8:24 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12123466)
We chose to get off the sh!t pot. It's a case of jumping through burocratic hoops and dealing with some cry baby remoaners now.

You just hate living in a country that has its laws and traditions that have evolved over centuries .
.


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