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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

lutonlad Nov 30th 2016 11:31 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12117733)
Yes there can and it's very, very simple.

The fact is that all the uncertainty has been generated by the UK voting to leave the EU - something for which I'm sure you'll agree the UK is solely responsible.

Following that vote and her election elevation to leader of the Conservatives, Theresa May announced a) that she wouldn't guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK b) the UK wouldn't reveal its negotiating hand and c) she wouldn't be giving a running commentary. However, she and other members of the government also made it very clear that EU citizens resident in the UK were one of their main bargaining chips. Particularly note a) there, please. It was the UK which first said that rights would not automatically be guaranteed.

The EU was ready to negotiate from day one and said so but also made it clear that negotiations cannot start until Article 50 has been invoked. Furthermore, Juncker felt it incumbent on him to clearly remind the UK government, at a time when the UK government was making noises about changing the rules for late arrivals to the UK, that the UK is still a full member of the EU and as such bound by all its rules, including those on freedom of movement, until that ceases to be the case - which isn't until after the Article 50 negotiations are complete.

Disregarding the fact that Angela Merkel alone cannot speak for the EU (unlike Theresa May and the UK on her part), can you not see how it is not Angela Merkel who needs to commence with the assurances?

It is a little tiresome - albeit entirely predictable - that this business of "they are refusing to be reasonable" or "all agreements will be reciprocal so if it turns out badly it's because of them" is arising at all. It is the UK which voted to leave, it is the UK which wishes to curtail freedom of movement, it is the UK which wants to end the agreements on social security etc etc etc. The EU wants to keep all those things. Now - who precisely is it who is generating uncertainty?

And I can't for the life of me see why that leaves Remoaners with egg on their chins and running all the way down their shirts - perhaps you can start with that in your reply and then move on to the easy stuff.

As the result is now open to interpretation (OUT was apparently too ambiguous), a General Election is an excellent idea. You never know, we might get a Govt with a clear mandate.

Red Eric Nov 30th 2016 11:42 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12117864)
As the result is now open to interpretation (OUT was apparently too ambiguous), a General Election is an excellent idea. You never know, we might get a Govt with a clear mandate.

All in good time - wouldn't like to jump the gun or be too hasty about the decision-making process. Far better to let things move along the predicted lines for a year or so - maybe a bit longer - and see how it all starts to pan out ;)

It was more the Conservative party's method of choosing our PM I was referring to there, anyway. All those poor saps paying membership fees and getting no say in who gets to be head honcho. Not even a choice between 2 candidates. Learnt their lesson with the referendum I guess - give 'em a choice of 2 and they might pick the wrong one.

lutonlad Nov 30th 2016 11:47 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12117871)
All in good time - wouldn't like to jump the gun or be too hasty about the decision-making process. Far better to let things move along the predicted lines for a year or so - maybe a bit longer - and see how it all starts to pan out ;)

It was more the Conservative party's method of choosing our PM I was referring to there, anyway. All those poor saps paying membership fees and getting no say in who gets to be head honcho. Not even a choice between 2 candidates. Learnt their lesson with the referendum I guess - give 'em a choice of 2 and they might pick the wrong one.

Yep. I'm fully aware of what you were referring to.
A GE may sort both issues. Could negate a few tiffs. ;)

Dick Dasterdly Nov 30th 2016 12:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12117864)
As the result is now open to interpretation (OUT was apparently too ambiguous), a General Election is an excellent idea. You never know, we might get a Govt with a clear mandate.

No problem there if required and certainly it would be a much bigger mandate than already exists now according to recent estimates, though I can understand Eric's frustration at the thought. :lol:

As for Merkel not agreeing a reciprocal agreement for Eu and U.K. citizens, regardless of how or when it is passed, it would at least be the decent thing to do to give these people a degree of security and reassurance by simply agreeing in principle.

But no, as with just about every other issue on the agenda, the bloody minded childish attitude continues by both the non elected dictatorial Eu leaders and their supporters who even now still can't get over the simple fact that a Democratic decision has been reached by the Uk to leave the Eu.

Dick Dasterdly Nov 30th 2016 12:27 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12117905)

Poor old Junkie will not be well pleased about that, as for mama Merkel....grrrrr :rofl:

Red Eric Nov 30th 2016 12:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12117896)
As for Merkel not agreeing a reciprocal agreement for Eu and U.K. citizens, regardless of how or when it is passed, it would at least be the decent thing to do to give these people a degree of security and reassurance by simply agreeing in principle.

You're being deliberately obtuse again Dick.

Angela Merkel has no power whatsoever to guarantee the rights of those EU citizens currently residing in the UK. Only the UK can do that, if it so chooses. And - as it has made perfectly clear - it wants to take an axe to those rights. The EU is saying that it is perfectly prepared to negotiate but needs to know what arrangements the UK is suggesting as a starting point for the negotiations. They insist (not unreasonably, in my opinion but others may differ) on formal notice being given before those negotiations begin.

If you can't grasp that, try looking at it another way. All the rights of all the other EU citizens residing in other EU states are guaranteed, Brexit or no Brexit.

EMR Nov 30th 2016 12:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12117896)
No problem there if required and certainly it would be a much bigger mandate than already exists now according to recent estimates, though I can understand Eric's frustration at the thought. :lol:

As for Merkel not agreeing a reciprocal agreement for Eu and U.K. citizens, regardless of how or when it is passed, it would at least be the decent thing to do to give these people a degree of security and reassurance by simply agreeing in principle.

But no, as with just about every other issue on the agenda, the bloody minded childish attitude continues by both the non elected dictatorial Eu leaders and their supporters who even now still can't get over the simple fact that a Democratic decision has been reached by the Uk to leave the Eu.

Please Dick give us details of the agreements in principle the UK has offered to the EU regarding trade and our relationship with the EU after brexit ?

Red Eric Nov 30th 2016 12:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12117906)

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post

GEREXIT: Poll finds nearly half of Germans want EU referendum | World | News | Daily Express


:thumbup:
Poor old Junkie will not be well pleased about that, as for mama Merkel....grrrrr :rofl:

Poor old Dick, having to resort to talking to yourself to get a thumbs up. Missing your double-act partner, are you? What's happened to him anyway - has he eloped with Gordon or something?

EMR Nov 30th 2016 12:54 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12117915)
Poor old Dick, having to resort to talking to yourself to get a thumbs up. Missing your double-act partner, are you? What's happened to him anyway - has he eloped with Gordon or something?

He is still looking for a left handed screw driver.

Annetje Nov 30th 2016 1:56 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12117896)
No problem there if required and certainly it would be a much bigger mandate than already exists now according to recent estimates, though I can understand Eric's frustration at the thought. :lol:

As for Merkel not agreeing a reciprocal agreement for Eu and U.K. citizens, regardless of how or when it is passed, it would at least be the decent thing to do to give these people a degree of security and reassurance by simply agreeing in principle.

But no, as with just about every other issue on the agenda, the bloody minded childish attitude continues by both the non elected dictatorial Eu leaders and their supporters who even now still can't get over the simple fact that a Democratic decision has been reached by the Uk to leave the Eu.

so leave !!!!!


Annetje Nov 30th 2016 2:00 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Boris Johnson: Let illegal immigrants who have lived in UK for over 10 years stay | The Independent

Do they have ANY clue what they want and how to achieve it ????

Brexiteers will go mad :-)

SultanOfSwing Nov 30th 2016 2:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12117994)
Brexiteers will go mad :-)

The implication that that hasn't already happened ... :D

EMR Nov 30th 2016 2:02 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12117991)
so leave !!!!!


The government would like to providing it " can have its cake and eat it "

Annetje Nov 30th 2016 2:20 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12117996)
The government would like to providing it " can have its cake and eat it "


Even for a slice of Canadian cake they have to wait at the back of the cue

Britain, stop thinking you can rely on Canada for a Brexit trade deal. We're not that keen on doing business with you | The Independent

EMR Nov 30th 2016 2:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12118011)

You have got it all wrong, the rest of the world does not want to deal with the EU but will open its doors to everything the UK has to offer (which is not that not much ).
In return it promises not to sell anything to the UK at prices lower than UK costs.
I know this to be true because brexit means brexit.


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