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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Nov 16th 2016 6:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12106061)
CORRECTION

Freedom of movement of those with SPECIAL SKILLS, which is something Brexiteers have been in favour of on a global basis and not treating those outside the Eu as second class citizens, as is Eu policy.

:lol::lol: You are funny sometimes Dick. One moment you have the entire world being ushered in through the open door and being given the red carpet treatment, the next the EU discriminates against non EU citizens. Honestly :rolleyes:

There isn't any EU legislation which treats non EU citizens as second class. In fact, by dint of EU legislation certain rights of non EU spouses and families are guaranteed as a minimum (except in the home country of the EU citizen, of course ;) ). Otherwise, it's up to each individual member state as to how they handle non EU migrants - so any discrimination is on their individual parts rather than by decree from the EC. That is why the UK chooses to be discriminatory about non EU migrants and how it is allowed to get away with treating spouses and family members of UK citizens differently to migrants from within the EU. Of course, the EU could have legislated to prevent the UK applying such disgraceful laws to its own citizens but that would have been seen as interfering with the country's sovereignty with regard to immigration, justice and home affairs. Furthermore, the UK has an opt out on such matters, so it wouldn't have applied to them unless they had wanted it to anyway.

Bipat Nov 16th 2016 7:34 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12106366)
:lol::lol: You are funny sometimes Dick. One moment you have the entire world being ushered in through the open door and being given the red carpet treatment, the next the EU discriminates against non EU citizens. Honestly :rolleyes:

There isn't any EU legislation which treats non EU citizens as second class. In fact, by dint of EU legislation certain rights of non EU spouses and families are guaranteed as a minimum (except in the home country of the EU citizen, of course ;) ). Otherwise, it's up to each individual member state as to how they handle non EU migrants - so any discrimination is on their individual parts rather than by decree from the EC. That is why the UK chooses to be discriminatory about non EU migrants and how it is allowed to get away with treating spouses and family members of UK citizens differently to migrants from within the EU. Of course, the EU could have legislated to prevent the UK applying such disgraceful laws to its own citizens but that would have been seen as interfering with the country's sovereignty with regard to immigration, justice and home affairs. Furthermore, the UK has an opt out on such matters, so it wouldn't have applied to them unless they had wanted it to anyway.

Agree with you regarding the rules for non-EU spouses.

However, are you saying that not allowing free movement of all non -EU citizens is choosing to be discriminatory?? Are you saying that all from anywhere could have free movement into the UK??

Obviously if there is free movement of one group of people ---the direct result will be a greater restriction on other groups if numbers are to be controlled.

Or are you saying there should be NO control over numbers of immigrants?

Red Eric Nov 16th 2016 8:14 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I thought it was fairly plain what I said but I'll give it another go.

Dick frequently says that member states are governed by EU legislation, over which he says they have no control and on this occasion he is saying that the EU discriminates against non EU citizens. His actual words were that they are treated as "2nd class citizens", which as far as I'm concerned refers as much to their rights and obligations post entry as to their right or otherwise to enter in the first place.

I am saying that non EU immigration policy is up to each of the individual member states' own legislation and that any "discrimination" which occurs is applied by them rather than by the EU / EC.

I am not talking simply about numbers, although I do find it strange when people insist on using this direct "if you let in more of them, you have to have fewer of those" approach, using an arbitrary total figure as a yardstick. However, that aside, there are other ways in which the UK treats non EU citizens differently from EU citizens and they are not restricted to the spouse & family rules. All the EU does is to rule that by and large, citizens from other member states must be treated equally to native citizens. That the UK chooses not to do the same with regard to non EU migrants is what I call discrimination or treating people as 2nd class citizens and it doesn't come from EU legislation.

EMR Nov 16th 2016 8:18 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The commonwealth immigration act and those that followed it have nothing to do with the EU and will not be relaxed following brexit.
To think otherwise is daycdreaming.
The brexit vote will allow the government to apply even more restrictions.

Bipat Nov 16th 2016 8:42 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12106408)
I thought it was fairly plain what I said but I'll give it another go.

Dick frequently says that member states are governed by EU legislation, over which he says they have no control and on this occasion he is saying that the EU discriminates against non EU citizens. His actual words were that they are treated as "2nd class citizens", which as far as I'm concerned refers as much to their rights and obligations post entry as to their right or otherwise to enter in the first place.

I am saying that non EU immigration policy is up to each of the individual member states' own legislation and that any "discrimination" which occurs is applied by them rather than by the EU / EC.

I am not talking simply about numbers, although I do find it strange when people insist on using this direct "if you let in more of them, you have to have fewer of those" approach, using an arbitrary total figure as a yardstick. However, that aside, there are other ways in which the UK treats non EU citizens differently from EU citizens and they are not restricted to the spouse & family rules. All the EU does is to rule that by and large, citizens from other member states must be treated equally to native citizens. That the UK chooses not to do the same with regard to non EU migrants is what I call discrimination or treating people as 2nd class citizens and it doesn't come from EU legislation.

Agree with most of your post, however the point I was making is just that --if there is no restriction on one group it is inevitable that there will be more restrictions on the entry rules for other groups, and less choice in admitting those with needed skills.

You didn't answer my question--Do you think that there should be free movement for all--- non-EU and EU and no restriction on numbers?

Bipat Nov 16th 2016 8:47 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12106411)
The commonwealth immigration act and those that followed it have nothing to do with the EU and will not be relaxed following brexit.
To think otherwise is daycdreaming.
The brexit vote will allow the government to apply even more restrictions.

The 'Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962' had nothing to do with the EU. What is your point? Why would it be relaxed?
There are other non-EU immigrants who come to the UK.

The idea is that Post Brexit all immigrants should be governed by the same entry rules, why do you not agree with this?

lutonlad Nov 16th 2016 9:31 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12106092)
You thought there was a plan for Brexit at the time of the referendum?

Seriously?

Sorry - but you're a fool.

I acknowledge the insult - par for the course. Not sure about the 'sorry' bit.

One would have expected Cameron to have had an initial plan either way.
Instead of that he raised the white flag and f****d off.
Having worked in contingency planning in the IT sector, I don't think my statement was in anyway far fetched or foolish.

Unless you think Govt is stupid per se - aka tabloid speak.

jimenato Nov 16th 2016 9:32 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12106421)
The 'Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962' had nothing to do with the EU. What is your point? Why would it be relaxed?
There are other non-EU immigrants who come to the UK.

The idea is that Post Brexit all immigrants should be governed by the same entry rules, why do you not agree with this?

Whose idea?

EMR Nov 16th 2016 9:34 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12106441)
Whose idea?

The idea is also that nett immigration be bought down to a few tens thousands.
Its from the same factory of looney ideas,.

Dick Dasterdly Nov 16th 2016 9:42 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
UK unemployment falls to 11-year low - BBC News

Ingles Nov 16th 2016 10:00 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
:thumbsup:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ve-campaigners

EMR Nov 16th 2016 10:08 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12106446)

More good news in a UK that still benefits from EU membership and free trade with the EU
Keep up the good work Dick you are doing great job of promoting the UK remaining in the EU free trade agreement.

Dick Dasterdly Nov 16th 2016 10:09 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Google to create 3,000 jobs in UK with expansion of London office - Mirror Online

Dick Dasterdly Nov 16th 2016 10:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Germany’s economic BOMBSHELL to EU: Growth FALLS to shockingly low 0.2 per cent | News Bison

EMR Nov 16th 2016 10:20 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12106460)

Behind events as usual Dick, are you living in a different dimension to the restl of us.
You or your twin brother commented , in error , on this yesterday.


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