British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

GeniB Jul 6th 2016 11:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 11995180)
Bipat The trouble with the points system is that it is usually applied to what skills a person has. If you wanted to migrate to Australia you must have skills to get a job and the occupation must be where there are skills shortages. Sadly the jobs we have a shortage in are occupations that are low skilled.
The ten pound poms of days gone by and the low skilled workers who were largely responsible for building the Snowy Mountains dams could not get into Australia now.
All the migration that we have had over the years have made Australia the great place it is today. Before anyone comments on our current system of turning the boats back or paying the people smugglers to take the people back I am personally ashamed that our government has this policy.


:goodpost: I think it has been found that the points system simple doesn't work anymore. My sister was one of the 10 pound 'poms' that went out to Australia in the 60's .They were needed then to build up the country.Life however was very hard,tough work and discrimination ,just like it is for many immigrants in the UK today.EU or none EU.

As you rightly say my sister could not get into Oz today.

paulry Jul 6th 2016 2:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 11995193)
Bipat. The points are never adjusted. You either meet or you don't. There is no flexibility and if one person doesn't meet then all fail.
I don't know the answers to the immigration issues and wouldn't know where to start but sadly we now have politicians who were successful in the election on the weekend who openly say they don't want people of certain nationally and that concerns me.
Oh well will just refill my glass. Maybe after the second glass of wine the world won't seem to be in such a mess.

That's not true. The Australian immigration department is constantly tinkering with the skills and the points that awarded for them to reflect the country's changing skills shortage needs. And the system is set up in such a way that a person can increase the number of points that they can achieve. For example by working to obtain a higher score with IELTS or by completing a degree - as I did. It's not a perfect system, but it's one of the worlds best.

Fredbargate Jul 6th 2016 2:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 11995405)
That's not true. The Australian immigration department is constantly tinkering with the skills and the points that awarded for them to reflect the country's changing skills shortage needs. And the system is set up in such a way that a person can increase the number of points that they can achieve. For example by working to obtain a higher score with IELTS or by completing a degree - as I did. It's not a perfect system, but it's one of the worlds best.

Much better than no control.

EMR Jul 6th 2016 5:58 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
France overtakes Uk as worlds no 5 economy due to brexit.
Carney has had to step in yet again in a effort to stem the decline in sterling and volatility in the markets..
Source Reuters.

lutonlad Jul 6th 2016 6:19 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11995641)
France overtakes Uk as worlds no 5 economy due to brexit.
Carney has had to step in yet again in a effort to stem the decline in sterling and volatility in the markets..
Source Reuters.

Brilliant. Are you holding another street party?

EMR Jul 6th 2016 6:48 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 11995660)
Brilliant. Are you holding another street party?

Hardly, it seems that only brexiters are revelling in the situation they have put the country into.
Overtaken by France .
Well done brexit , you are no better than the England football team.

amideislas Jul 6th 2016 7:55 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well, aside from its (surprisingly rapid) decline on the global stage, that does indeed put Britain in the #3 spot within the EU. And that obviously also represents a decline in its negotiating power with the EU.

It also puts doubt on the pre-referendum optimistic projections of Britain becoming the world's 4th largest economy. But that was probably a bit overly optimistic, as Britain was already punching far above its weight. 5th was probably as good as it will ever get.

Oh well, it's not as if nobody warned us. We knew this going in to the referendum. ...Didn't we?

GeniB Jul 6th 2016 8:10 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Had to go back to the SEF office today with YD. (Alien police and border control) she had double booked on the date we had arranged two weeks before for all three of us to go and apply for the extension of our residency permit.So here we were again giving her a lift as her car was in the garage .
We of course went before Brexit.and we were treated with extreme efficiency.curtesy with an appointment dead on time etc.In and out in fifteen mins

This however was post BREXIT.. YD had an appointment at exactly the same time 9.00am.. The guy on the reception desk had walked her papers over to one of the clerks.whispered .words were exchanged and then we were told to sit down.

We sat for a good 15 minutes whilst one after the other people sitting behind us were called to different desks.
A Canadian family who had arrived well after everyone else, was then called , again ahead of us. We became uneasy. what was going on? However we concentrated on the family in front of us
It appeared that they had 'somehow come into the country without passports? via Iceland.Then decided to move on from the address they had in Lisbon. to Lagos and an AirBnB. They had then run out of visa time.and landed here at the SEF desk.Fascinating on and on their story went

After about 40 minutes of watching the saga of interrogation,form filling ,photo's of the family , and idly watching person after person continue to go up to the other desks It did occur to me that maybe YD was being made an example of. Retaliation for what was happening in the UK to Portuguese nationals.I began to feel frustrated and angry..

We could perhaps be forgiven for thinking it.(even in the notoriously long Portuguese queue's) many I know would have protested,stormed out even. I also realised with some discomfort in that hot room ,that this must be how many immigrants feel

I therefore didn't get angry,I didn't protest .We sat on. Eventually after 50 minutes with the Canadian family still at the desk,still filling in forms. The guy at the reception came over and calling our YD by her first name apologised profusely for making her wait so long.

It was just the guy on the Canadians desk spoke fluent English, and they were an emergency(flying home on Friday) In the event another clerk who also spoke fluent English had just come on shift so she could go to his desk.

He couldn't have been nicer and also apologised for the extensive wait. Her papers were attended to in double quick time.Ironically ,had we known that was the problem YD could have said that she speaks fluent Portuguese,or at least enough to comply with the office .
C'est la Vie

Why am I mentioning this here.? Because in all the hysteria of BREXIT. it would be so easy to interpret previously tricky but friendly procedures within the EU in a totally different way now .It reminded me of how reliant ex-pats are on the kindness of strangers. The willingness of other nationalities to treat us fairly.
I was also reminded sharply when looking at the little Canadian family(still there when we left) and their long,long trial at the Aliens desk,that that will be us soon.We will no longer be part of the EU family that we have belonged to for over 30 yrs. I for one am very sad about that.

JACHA Jul 6th 2016 8:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Excellent post G. :goodpost:

JACHA Jul 6th 2016 8:51 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
paulry. Tinkering with the points to make it difficult. If you do not have the required skills at application stage ( for permanent residency) it is not a valid application. You are not able to up skill once you are here. I am only talking about applying to live here permanently. People from UK would not need English language requirement.
My point is migrants of forty to fifty years ago would not get a foot in the door now.
While I have been investigating retiring to Italy all I need is an income of 38.000 euros per year and private health and be prepared to pay tax but they are the basics. Of course it is more complex than that but we don't have that option for anyone who would like to retire in Australia. Mind you the UK makes it just as difficult for us Aussies to live there on a permanent basis. Being part of the Commonwealth has never been advantageous for us.
At my age life is all about me and my age group. lol.

la mancha Jul 6th 2016 10:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11995687)
Hardly, it seems that only brexiters are revelling in the situation they have put the country into.
Overtaken by France .
Well done brexit , you are no better than the England football team.

'But volatile exchange rates meant the figures were hard to pin down. Britain briefly regained fifth spot after the pound broke above 1.17 euros for a few hours on Wednesday (today), only to sag again in mid-afternoon trade.
Britain and France, which have similar populations, have swapped positions before in the rankings.'

From Reuters.

BEVS Jul 7th 2016 2:30 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 11995768)
paulry. Tinkering with the points to make it difficult. If you do not have the required skills at application stage ( for permanent residency) it is not a valid application. You are not able to up skill once you are here. I am only talking about applying to live here permanently. People from UK would not need English language requirement.

New Zealand also operates a points system also with regard to residency.It also has a skills shortage list which is reviewed and adjusted bi-annually. That is done in conjunction with the NZ dept of labour .

I do not know about the Oz system . I do know that UK nurses wishing to nurse here in NZ are required to pass the IELTS tests.

I also know that for several occupations including trades people, that even if they are fully qualified in the UK , they still need to upskill once in NZ. So for the application you must be fully qualified in your country of origin first, then once here you must upskill to meet the codes and standards for that country.


My point is migrants of forty to fifty years ago would not get a foot in the door now.
The need for people in the antipodeas has changed over the past half century & with that the need of the country with regard to labour and the type of labour. Same for the UK way back when.

Lion in Winter Jul 7th 2016 3:23 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Points systems are not as easy as they sound. The calculations of which industry sector needs what, who, when, and for how long are immensely complicated. The UK ditched its last attempt at such a system and it would not in any case allow those "target numbers" to be reached.

No guarantee points-based system will reduce net migration, experts warn | Politics | The Guardian

JACHA Jul 7th 2016 7:01 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
BEVS That's interesting because we follow the same occupation list (ANZCO) as NZ. If you hold a passport from UK,NZ,CANADA a person doesn't have to sit IELTS test.
Sorry to get off topic. Although BREXIT conversations at work are diminishing as Oscar P conversations have taken over. Oh well another day another dollar)

paulry Jul 7th 2016 7:45 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by JACHA (Post 11996099)
BEVS That's interesting because we follow the same occupation list (ANZCO) as NZ. If you hold a passport from UK,NZ,CANADA a person doesn't have to sit IELTS test.
Sorry to get off topic. Although BREXIT conversations at work are diminishing as Oscar P conversations have taken over. Oh well another day another dollar)

I'm not sure how it is now but when I applied (6 years ago), people from the UK, NZ, Aus, etc didn't have to sit the IELTS test - you simply got 15 points for being from an English speaking country. But if you wanted (or in my case because of my age, needed) 25 points then you had to sit and score top marks in the IELTS test. IMO, the points system is a great way to plug changing skills shortages while at the same time putting first the interests of those who are already in the country. Britain ditched all serious efforts at developing a good points system firstly because it was seen as too hard and secondly those charged with developing and enforcing strong immigration controls (Home Office civil servants) simply do/did not have their hearts in it. And (besides the situation brought about by free movement in the EU), that last point is largely why Cameron has been unable to reduce immigration down to the tens of thousands.


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