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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

paulry Nov 7th 2016 11:16 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097721)
Who, apart from the tabloids, is seriously suggesting that Parliament will reverse the result of the referendum?

We all know that brexit will be watered down so that it'll be only half brexit

lutonlad Nov 7th 2016 11:29 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097721)
Who, apart from the tabloids, is seriously suggesting that Parliament will reverse the result of the referendum?

You're quite right. MPs are indeed saying just that. They are of course true to the people. Even JC has stated that he is not out to reverse the result of the referendum, hoping that people are sufficiently fooled.

However the real agenda is to interpret the result so that it almost becomes a virtual Remain without using the word.

Interpret becomes a synonym of Reverse, they hope.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 11:46 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097725)
We all know that brexit will be watered down so that it'll be only half brexit


Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12097733)
You're quite right. MPs are indeed saying just that. They are of course true to the people. Even JC has stated that he is not out to reverse the result of the referendum, hoping that people are sufficiently fooled.

However the real agenda is to interpret the result so that it almost becomes a virtual Remain without using the word.

Interpret becomes a synonym of Reverse, they hope.

And what both of you are essentially saying was always the case - because the referendum was only ever about staying or leaving the union, and never about what the relationship would be afterwards. Some of us on here, and elsewhere, have been discussing that for months. My personal position, stated months ago, was that the referendum was all bread and circuses and we would end up with what big business wants, as we always do.

Nothing has really changed - May and her cabinet were going to be making all those deals in private (one was apparently already made with Nissan in Sunderland)Now they may be slightly less private. That is all.

You wanted Brexit to look a certain way, although you haven't articulated it in any specific terms. None of us know what all 17 million leave voters wanted. You want them to have wanted the same as you, but that's different. There isn't even agreement among the Leave voters on BE.

jimenato Nov 7th 2016 11:58 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097725)
We all know that brexit will be watered down so that it'll be only half brexit

Can you and mfesharne sort this out between you please?:(

He keeps putting up a picture of the ballot paper pointing out that there are only two options - remain or leave and saying it's simple, but you keep saying things like 'full' and 'half' brexit as if there's a bit more to it than that.

It's almost as if leavers don't agree on what Brexit means.:confused:

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 12:17 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12097748)
Can you and mfesharne sort this out between you please?:(

He keeps putting up a picture of the ballot paper pointing out that there are only two options - remain or leave and saying it's simple, but you keep saying things like 'full' and 'half' brexit as if there's a bit more to it than that.

It's almost as if leavers don't agree on what Brexit means.:confused:

I only keep posting the ballot paper because so many here consistently keep suggesting there was more to the question than there actually was.

Which would suggest the remainers don't agree with each other either...... but why should they?

Each individual whether they voted to leave or remain for their own personal (and different) reasons.

Personally, there's quite a lot I like (or at least, don't dislike) about the EU & had DC's negotiations gained concessions on just a few things, I might possibly have voted to remain......... but he didn't.

lutonlad Nov 7th 2016 12:25 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097757)
I only keep posting the ballot paper because so many here consistently keep suggesting there was more to the question than there actually was.

Which would suggest the remainers don't agree with each other either...... but why should they?

Each individual whether they voted to leave or remain for their own personal (and different) reasons.

Personally, there's quite a lot I like (or at least, don't dislike) about the EU & had DC's negotiations gained concessions on just a few things, I might possibly have voted to remain......... but he didn't.

My sentiments exactly. And yes, there are different Remain camps - the ideologists are the ones who are effectively federalists. They support closer integration and wont budge on those principles - so no room for comprise. They hate the idea of borders and sovereign states.

jimenato Nov 7th 2016 12:31 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
So what does paulry mean - half Brexit and full Brexit?

Surely - Brexit means Brexit.

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 12:43 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12097764)
So what does paulry mean - half Brexit and full Brexit?

Surely - Brexit means Brexit.

Brexit does indeed mean Brexit & the word/definition was only recently added to the (OE?) dictionary so with luck, I might not have to keep posting the ballot paper. ;)

The question now must surely be should the UK leave now or after triggering A50 & negotiations & if the latter, what terms will be negotiated?

To me, having the negotiations debated in Parliament beforehand is tipping our hand to the EU which will mean a worse deal for the UK.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 1:08 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097774)
Brexit does indeed mean Brexit & the word/definition was only recently added to the (OE?) dictionary so with luck, I might not have to keep posting the ballot paper. ;)

The question now must surely be should the UK leave now or after triggering A50 & negotiations & if the latter, what terms will be negotiated?

To me, having the negotiations debated in Parliament beforehand is tipping our hand to the EU which will mean a worse deal for the UK.

There can't be much of a hand to tip. I mean, realistically speaking what sort of secrets are there really in such discussions? They are all talking about it already, and negotiating and jockeying for position like hell. I'm sure businesses aren't waiting for anybody.

And as far as I know we can't leave before triggering article 50.

In the meantime, here is food for thought. (NB: You do have to read all of it, not just the tltle)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/prais...le-editor-pick

la mancha Nov 7th 2016 1:22 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097789)
There can't be much of a hand to tip. I mean, realistically speaking what sort of secrets are there really in such discussions? They are all talking about it already, and negotiating and jockeying for position like hell. I'm sure businesses aren't waiting for anybody.

And as far as I know we can't leave before triggering article 50.

In the meantime, here is food for thought. (NB: You do have to read all of it, not just the tltle)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/prais...le-editor-pick

Very nice sentiments from one of the world’s richest men. But can you ask him whoever said anything about banning European workers from coming here? Who has said anything about banning anybody coming here? Who is he preaching to, the City or Redcar?

You ask what sort of secrets are there? We have to unravel forty years of EU laws, rules and regulations. A business colleague once told me something that I will always remember: never tell the enemy what you are doing. In every aspect of my life it rings true.

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 1:31 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097789)
There can't be much of a hand to tip. I mean, realistically speaking what sort of secrets are there really in such discussions? They are all talking about it already, and negotiating and jockeying for position like hell. I'm sure businesses aren't waiting for anybody.

And as far as I know we can't leave before triggering article 50.

In the meantime, here is food for thought. (NB: You do have to read all of it, not just the tltle)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/prais...le-editor-pick

I think they'll be shitloads to debate but if not then the debates won't take long but as I see it, anything they discuss will be seen by the other side before anything is agreed & that's a recipe for disaster in any negotiations.

I believe they can leave without triggering A50 simply by rescinding what I think (from memory) is called the European Communities Act or similar & it'd mean immediate & total withdrawal.

Red Eric Nov 7th 2016 1:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12097796)
Very nice sentiments from one of the world’s richest men. But can you ask him whoever said anything about banning European workers from coming here? Who has said anything about banning anybody coming here? Who is he preaching to, the City or Redcar?

You ask what sort of secrets are there? We have to unravel forty years of EU laws, rules and regulations. A business colleague once told me something that I will always remember: never tell the enemy what you are doing. In every aspect of my life it rings true.

Why do they have to be unravelled? If they work for the UK even after Brexit (whatever that comes to mean), they don't have to be unravelled at all. And the current thinking is that they get immediately incorporated into UK law for review at complete leisure.

Mind you, there is apparently another school of thought revolving around something called a "sunset clause" - that one doesn't sound so good.

Red Eric Nov 7th 2016 1:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The Crown Prosecution Service is considering a complaint made against the Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigns for making knowingly misleading assertions during the referendum campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-misled-voters

Bipat Nov 7th 2016 1:53 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12097707)
So the easing of visa restrictions are for the benefit of those at the top!

How many of that 5% will replace the EU care workers, tradespeople and fruit-pickers, because fewer Brits are willing to work long hours for shit pay, whereas eastern Europeans are used to doing that. Increasing work visas (which the article says isn't going to happen) for those kinds of work would be of more benefit to Indian workers.
.

Whatever the outcome of Brexit there is nothing to stop workers from EU countries coming to work in the UK, there will presumably just be visa restrictions. They are capable of filling in forms?

Visa restrictions can be changed at any time according to the workers needed, unlike EU free movement.

Visas for UK people into India and Indian people into UK, have frequently changed over the decades. Changes in cost and restrictions are usually reciprocal.
Occasionally changes for UK into India for security reasons.

Indian workers do not usually come to the UK intending to do menial work, there is plenty of that at home!!
They come to hopefully get better jobs (although in the past, in practice, it often means down-grading.

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 2:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12097811)
The Crown Prosecution Service is considering a complaint made against the Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigns for making knowingly misleading assertions during the referendum campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-misled-voters

Unfkcuinbelievable. The remoaniacs that are producing drivel such as this would do well to heed Nigel Lawson's recent speech when he warned the vermin in ermine that to meddle with or try to slow or stop the democratic decision to leave would be "playing with fire"


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