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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 10:21 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097352)
That's not what those who called the referendum led everyone to believe.

You didn't know it was advisory?

Did Farage not mention that? The papers were pretty clear..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-parliament

Even the Daily Mail said so, and also talked about Parliament having to agree to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ather-law.html

lutonlad Nov 7th 2016 10:23 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097660)
I'd be inclined to change a few rather than go wholly one way or 'tother.

I'd make zero hours illegal & introduce a livable minimum wage but also make it easier for an employer to ditch an undesirable employee.

I'd also look carefully at benefits such child benefit because I find it extremely distasteful that some can 'farm' children so they don't have to work.

I'm sure it'll be unpopular here with some but as I see it, if people want to have children they should pay for them themselves.

Some (inc me) would say your views are perfectly reasonable. Others will no doubt brand you as a nasty right winger. The latter see those on benefits as prime voting fodder, irrespective of whether they're cheating the system.

jimenato Nov 7th 2016 10:25 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097689)
You didn't know it was advisory?

Did Farage not mention that? The papers were pretty clear..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-parliament

It's just another instance of lack of knowledge of the issues on the part of leave voters. It's unimportant now anyway - the damage is done.

Bipat Nov 7th 2016 10:27 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12097679)
From your link;



So it's only going to change things for maybe 5% of Indian visa applicants.



How the hell is what she wears relevent? Unless it's deliberately culturally insensitive.

I suppose the same % of UK applicants for long term visas that India has reduced restrictions. As I have said it is always reciprocal.

The coat ----It was a joke!----it is the same coat she wore when she went to see the queen, I just happen not to like it:lol:

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 10:28 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12097690)
Some (inc me) would say your views are perfectly reasonable. Others will no doubt brand you as a nasty right winger. The latter see those on benefits as prime voting fodder, irrespective of whether they're cheating the system.

As I see it, the benefits system should be a safety net for people who are in genuine need NOT a lifestyle choice for feckless, bone idle parasites.

jimenato Nov 7th 2016 10:30 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097693)
As I see it, the benefits system should be a safety net for people who are in genuine need NOT a lifestyle choice for feckless, bone idle parasites.

Bit off topic aren't we? Unless you see these issues as EU issues...

lutonlad Nov 7th 2016 10:38 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12097695)
Bit off topic aren't we? Unless you see these issues as EU issues...

Actually they are related.

The UKs welfare model is still largely non contributory. Many other EU countries are contribution based. This fact alone has made it more difficult for Brits to accept some of the EU edicts related to freedom of movement.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 10:48 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12097698)
Actually they are related.

The UKs welfare model is still largely non contributory. Many other EU countries are contribution based. This fact alone has made it more difficult for Brits to accept some of the EU edicts related to freedom of movement.

Then the British government could - you may say should - have fixed that. By itself. Not the EU's fault.

As to "benefits cheats" you have to decide how society as a whole is better off. If you really think that the number of cheats invalidates the whole system of financial support for the poorest children, you are entitled to think so. I don't know how many actual cheats there are, personally. Maybe you do? I would say that our society came a long way post-war when our modern security net came into being. Not sure it's an EU issue though.

DaveLovesDee Nov 7th 2016 10:51 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12097692)
I suppose the same % of UK applicants for long term visas that India has reduced restrictions. As I have said it is always reciprocal.

So the easing of visa restrictions are for the benefit of those at the top!

How many of that 5% will replace the EU care workers, tradespeople and fruit-pickers, because fewer Brits are willing to work long hours for shit pay, whereas eastern Europeans are used to doing that. Increasing work visas (which the article says isn't going to happen) for those kinds of work would be of more benefit to Indian workers.


Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097693)
As I see it, the benefits system should be a safety net for people who are in genuine need NOT a lifestyle choice for feckless, bone idle parasites.

I agree up to a point, but I've seen a few of those large families on benefits up close, and none of them I'd even consider offering a job to. They see themselves as grifters.

Quite a few of the kids have grown up and work hard though.

mfesharne Nov 7th 2016 10:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12097707)

I agree up to a point, but I've seen a few of those large families on benefits up close, and none of them I'd even consider offering a job to. They see themselves as grifters.

Quite a few of the kids have grown up and work hard though.

They'd be starving, homeless grifters if I had my way.

I don't have a problem at all with giving generous benefits to those who genuinely need it but only to those who genuinely need it.

The ones that simply don't want to work would either have to bite the bullet & do what every other bugger has to do as in get a job or go starve under a bush........ with absolutely no exceptions.

And before anyone on my ignore list accuses me of being over privileged, I grew up bloody poor.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 11:06 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097709)
They'd be starving, homeless grifters if I had my way.

I don't have a problem at all with giving generous benefits to those who genuinely need it but only to those who genuinely need it.

The ones that simply don't want to work would either have to bite the bullet & do what every other bugger has to do as in get a job or go starve under a bush........ with absolutely no exceptions.

And before anyone on my ignore list accuses me of being over privileged, I grew up bloody poor.

But how do you know which is which? How can you tell someone's character by looking at them? And even if the parents are of poor character, should the children suffer for it?

These things sound very easy in principle - only those who genuinely need help and deserve it should get it - but putting it into practice is another matter. Not to mention the whole Victorian ethos of the deserving and undeserving poor. That's how people, and children, ended up dying on the streets, living with sickness and disease, or in workhouses - because someone decided they were undeserving. I would rather support some undeserving types than go back to that for all.

lutonlad Nov 7th 2016 11:07 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097705)
Then the British government could - you may say should - have fixed that. By itself. Not the EU's fault.

As to "benefits cheats" you have to decide how society as a whole is better off. If you really think that the number of cheats invalidates the whole system of financial support for the poorest children, you are entitled to think so. I don't know how many actual cheats there are, personally. Maybe you do? I would say that our society came a long way post-war when our modern security net came into being. Not sure it's an EU issue though.

Agreed. 'By itself. Not the EU's fault'. It's quite apparent now that Treaties were signed by the UK without modelling the various scenarios that could come back and bite us years down the line. Successful businesses have to do such things, successive inept Governments didn't.

paulry Nov 7th 2016 11:10 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097689)
You didn't know it was advisory?

Did Farage not mention that? The papers were pretty clear..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-parliament

Even the Daily Mail said so, and also talked about Parliament having to agree to it.

'Brexit won't happen even if we vote to leave the EU' says Lord William Astor | Daily Mail Online


Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12097691)
It's just another instance of lack of knowledge of the issues on the part of leave voters. It's unimportant now anyway - the damage is done.

Sure it has always been advisory but the government has always said it would abide by the majority decision.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 11:11 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12097716)
Agreed. 'By itself. Not the EU's fault'. It's quite apparent now that Treaties were signed by the UK without modelling the various scenarios that could come back and bite us years down the line. Successful businesses have to do such things, successive inept Governments didn't.

I believe that the fact that our system is non-contributory stems from British legislation post WWII, not the EU. Indeed other EU countries have different and contributory systems, I believe. In which case, we could have changed that at any time.

Lion in Winter Nov 7th 2016 11:13 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097718)
Sure it has always been advisory but the government has always said it would abide by the majority decision.

Who, apart from the tabloids, is seriously suggesting that Parliament will reverse the result of the referendum?


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