British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Former Lancastrian Nov 6th 2016 12:46 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12097065)
A country must have an independent,unelected judiciary , beholden to no one to monitor and some times overule government.
The alternative is Putins Russia , Mugabes Zimbabwe etc etc.
We never want to go down that road.

Independent is the key word. Can you honestly say be it the House of Lords, the Canadian Senate, The American Supreme Court etc etc are truly Independent and their appointments had nothing to do with which ever party they support?

EMR Nov 6th 2016 12:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097066)
The EU is much more than laws. It's:
  • the massive economic and social effects of uncontrolled immigration from the EU ("...but our diversity is our strength". Yeah, right. ;));
  • the destruction of our our fisheries;
  • the cost of membership (yeah sure, we put a lot in and we get *some of it* back - decided by the EU mandarins);
  • creeping federalism.

Not bad considering Britons have only ever consented to membership of the "Common Market", huh?

The UK fishing conglomerates who make millions from exporting the UK catch would disagree with you.
The UK is a low consumer of fish .
As for your comments re immigration from an immigrant who lives thousands of miles away they have been put into the dustbin of prejudice and ignorance.
Come back to the UK and live here for a few years and then you will be qualified to comment.
Hopefully in that time you will not have to use the services of the NHS which only functions because of the tens thousands of immigrants, EU and non EU who work in it.
But then you would know nothing about that in Australia.

Red Eric Nov 6th 2016 12:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097062)
Well I'm glad you followed the sequence anyway. Reading these threads I sometimes think I've had a stroke or something the way peoples' thoughts seem to fly around.

I think it might have something to do with the reference materials they use, Lion. From the frequent forays I've made into the links provided, I can vouch for the fact that they display remarkably similar characteristics ;)

EMR Nov 6th 2016 12:53 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097069)
Independent is the key word. Can you honestly say be it the House of Lords, the Canadian Senate, The American Supreme Court etc etc are truly Independent and their appointments had nothing to do with which ever party they support?

We are not talking about the house of lords, but the Judiciary , the Judges who owe nothing to any political party who made the Judgement on friday.
The UK second house is an anachronism but since the constitutional crisis of I think 1912,13 has little real power.

Red Eric Nov 6th 2016 12:56 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097066)
The EU is much more than laws. It's:
  • the massive economic and social effects of uncontrolled immigration from the EU ("...but our diversity is our strength". Yeah, right. ;));
  • the destruction of our our fisheries;
  • the cost of membership (yeah sure, we put a lot in and we get *some of it* back - decided by the EU mandarins);
  • creeping federalism.

Not bad considering Britons have only ever consented to membership of the "Common Market", huh?

Really? https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...uk-fisheries-0

Lion in Winter Nov 6th 2016 1:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097059)
So basically when the vote was called for nobody really had an idea of what they were voting for and when and if the result was known what would then happen ;)

Interesting developments now with the Canadian Senate. There are now more alleged Independent Senators (appointed and not elected). The Tory dominated Senate now find themselves outnumbered by Independents. This could be very interesting as the last 20 or so Independent Senators were appointed by the Liberal Prime Minister.

I do have somewhat of a problem with UNELECTED officials making decisions that override decisions made by ELECTED officials.
But hey Im just a drone so what would I know what is good or bad for me as an individual or what is good for the country.

In answer to your first question, yes - except that it wasn't a direct vote as it is when you vote for your MP, it was an advisory referendum.

And judges are not "officials". They form the courts of law and the rule of law is also a part of our constitution. And their decision, if it stands in the supreme court, will actually give more power to our elected representatives by affirming our MPs' (Parliament's) right to be consulted on Article 50 and the terms of exit. We don't vote directly for the PM, other than those in her constituency who gave her her seat in the first place. We didn't put May in charge of the Conservative party. And god knows we did not choose her ministers. That is how our system works. Not the same as Canada, although I'm sure they are all very polite about it :)


If our highest court overturns the decision and says May can use Royal Prerogative to trigger Article 50 and negotiate the exit alone, then I'm guessing that some pro-Brexit people will not be complaining about a lack of democracy or intefering judges any longer.......

Lion in Winter Nov 6th 2016 1:15 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097069)
Independent is the key word. Can you honestly say be it the House of Lords, the Canadian Senate, The American Supreme Court etc etc are truly Independent and their appointments had nothing to do with which ever party they support?

Our supreme court is actually a fairly new invention, making it the highest court in the land rather than the House of Lords (2005 I think).

https://www.supremecourt.uk/about/si...to-the-uk.html

paulry Nov 6th 2016 1:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12097077)


la mancha Nov 6th 2016 1:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12096665)
So your contention is that the underfunding of the NHS, the lack of affordable housing, the failure of state education to educate all to a functional standard, youth homelessness and toxic drug addiction, and the lack of economic investment and opportunity in some parts of the country are all due to our EU membership and the British government was prevented from addressing any of it because EU-imposed laws prevented them?

The main issues that people wanted dealt with were high rents, low paid work, school places, an NHS that works for them. I do not remember youth homelessness and drug addiction (?) mentioned as these are social issues and nothing at all to do with the EU and Brexit. Same with education. Seventeen million plus people want a new start. Within the EU that new start is not possible. Do you understand?

mfesharne Nov 6th 2016 1:39 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
It'll be interesting to see what happens when the SC decision is made & whether the losers can/will appeal to the European Court or not.

I mentioned that option a while ago & was shouted down on it but Sky News had a legal fundi on last night who said it might be an option.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 1:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12097100)
The main issues that people wanted dealt with were high rents, low paid work, school places, an NHS that works for them. I do not remember youth homelessness and drug addiction (?) mentioned as these are social issues and nothing at all to do with the EU and Brexit. Same with education. Seventeen million plus people want a new start. Within the EU that new start is not possible. Do you understand?

I do not agree with your assumption that 17 million all voted for exactly the same reasons., even Farage does not agree with you.He has his own theories as do many brexiters
However I do agree that there is a feeling among very large numbers that they are trapped in a system that does not recognise them or reward their efforts.
That system is called Capitalism and nothing will change that.
Given that nothing is going to change , our political structures are not changing that life in or out of the EU will make a difference.
This is a serious question, where are the billions comkng from to build the homes, refinance the NHS education etc.etc.
Public spending comes either from massive borrowing or massive tax rises.
We all want change but hoping that leaving the EU will bring about that change is just a pipe dream, smoke in the wind.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 1:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12097101)
It'll be interesting to see what happens when the SC decision is made & whether the losers can/will appeal to the European Court or not.

I mentioned that option a while ago & was shouted down on it but Sky News had a legal fundi on last night who said it might be an option.

If the government has any sense it will raise the bill to impliment article 50 soon and not bother with an appeal which it coukd lose make it look even more foolish than it does now.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 1:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12097096)

No facts just more youcrap.

la mancha Nov 6th 2016 2:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12097106)
I do not agree with your assumption that 17 million all voted for exactly the same reasons., even Farage does not agree with you.He has his own theories as do many brexiters
However I do agree that there is a feeling among very large numbers that they are trapped in a system that does not recognise them or reward their efforts.
That system is called Capitalism and nothing will change that.
Given that nothing is going to change , our political structures are not changing that life in or out of the EU will make a difference.
This is a serious question, where are the billions comkng from to build the homes, refinance the NHS education etc.etc.
Public spending comes either from massive borrowing or massive tax rises.
We all want change but hoping that leaving the EU will bring about that change is just a pipe dream, smoke in the wind.

I disagree. The system is called the EU. Without that people see a new beginning for themselves. Talk all you want but until they are convinced otherwise, and so far no one has been able to, they will want out.

Public spending, tax rises and borrowing has nothing to do with Brexit. We do this with or without the EU. When we can be sure of the number of people we want in this country then we can plan housing accordingly. If we have to let any European national into this country can’t you see we are just pissing in the wind?

Tell me where change is going to come from?

But this is old news so it is not worth going over again.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 2:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12097121)
I disagree. The system is called the EU. Without that people see a new beginning for themselves. Talk all you want but until they are convinced otherwise, and so far no one has been able to, they will want out.

Public spending, tax rises and borrowing has nothing to do with Brexit. We do this with or without the EU. When we can be sure of the number of people we want in this country then we can plan housing accordingly. If we have to let any European national into this country can’t you see we are just pissing in the wind?

Tell me where change is going to come from?

But this is old news so it is not worth going over again.

Change will not come, in or out if the EU nothing significant is going to alter the social and economic structure of the UK.
Cling to your dream that a non EU will make life different , but it is just that a dream.
Everything you want will cost billions, money the UK just does not have. In or out of the UK.


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:01 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.