British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Nov 6th 2016 10:58 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12096965)

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12096949)
No........ Where did I ever make that claim?

You made the claim by supporting Brexit.

In doing so, you are part of a social category where all of your views are known. You are considered to be part of a new underclass. Sorry.

Actually, he "made the claim" by countering the statement that various problems (and they were described) which beset the UK are to do with choices made by UK governments with one of his own saying the UK is bound by EU laws it can do nothing about until it exits the EU, whereupon it can change its laws without interference from outside.

Unless, of course, that was a complete non sequitir ;)

Odd that one should have to explain how a conversation consisting of a sequence of posts works, on a discussion forum :confused:

Former Lancastrian Nov 6th 2016 11:00 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12096992)
He actually said "an EU law that affected UK citizens adversely" - you missed that bit.:sneaky:

And reducing the power consumption of vacuum cleaners is actually a very good idea.

:lol: But if I had 10 cats living with me then the law would then adversely affect me as I want a vacuum cleaner able to suck the chrome off a trailer hitch;)

Its the perception and optics of a law being made by the EU that pisses off some UK residents. Although the deportation of foreign criminals is ultimately decided by the UK why does the ECJ even get involved as in the case a few posts above

The woman has a British son and, in a preliminary judgement, the European Court of Justice ruled that EU law means the UK can only deport her if she poses a “serious” threat.

So if the UK deemed her a serious threat would the case go back to the ECJ to rule if the UK was correct in their assessment? Why even involve the ECJ if the UK can decide?

lutonlad Nov 6th 2016 11:04 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12096975)
Don't be ridiculous.

I made & make no such claim & I supported Brexit because I believe the UK & my loved ones who live there will have a better future out of the EUSSR than they would inside it.

And that is my democratic right....... If you don't like it, then lump it. :confused:

Sorry. I should have added :sarcasm: in my post. I wasn't getting at you. Quite the opposite.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 11:28 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12096988)
You asked for an EU law that affected UK citizens so I gave you one. Im sure there are others if I could be arsed to look.

Im a UK expat living in Canada who couldn't vote so I have no horse in this race.
Parliament gave a vote to the public to leave or remain in the EU. The leave vote won. Parliament is elected. Now the recent ruling by the 3 High court judges who are NOT ELECTED has caused further chaos. Why are UNELECTED persons making decisions on what ELECTED officials can or cannot do.
IMHO article 50 should be allowed to be triggered without a vote as they asked for the vote and got the result saying LEAVE. Thats true democracy.

As for the merits of leaving or remaining I really don't give a rats ass.

The case was not about brexit, brexit will happen.
The judges in their summary went out if their way to point iut that it was not a ruling on brexit.
I suggest you ignore the posts from our brexiters and read the detailed articles in decent newspapers like the Times.

Fredbargate Nov 6th 2016 11:39 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12096932)
You should find time to watch the series on UK border contriolwhich shows the efforts the UK takes to prevent illegal and bogus entrants.
It might change the colour of the glasses you wear from rose tinted to clear.
You should also accept that as part of the brexit vote a majority voted for a reduction in immigration to a few tens thousands year, which May has committed herself to.
I do not agree with that but please do not delude yourself into thinking that India will get special treatment.
Bogus colleges needed bogus students.

How does that fit with previous posts?


Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11952444)
You need to address your question to the Border conttrol agency and to agencies like Europol who exchange infornation on serious criminals.
Every person entering the UK legally has their identity checked..
There are European arrest warrents that the brexit campaign are not happy with that can be applied for.
Does the UK alert every other EU nation about every serious UK criminal so that they too can be refused entry when they try to enter another member nation.


Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 11954187)
BBC news last night in their referendum coverage highlighted some passport free routes into the UK,


Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11954223)
You mean between the UK and the ROI.
That is not a secret, we have a special relstionship and seperate agreement with the ROI, tens thousands have given their lives fighting for the freedoms you enjoy.
I too watched BBC news.
Again unrelated to the EU.

I am still waiting for you to admit you are a liar by answering post 10098 on this thread.

But of course that would be being honest.

Something you are not familiar with

EMR Nov 6th 2016 11:40 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12096977)
I am aware of the border controls and illegal immigration.
Did you disagree with the closure of bogus colleges??
Many were run by people of subcontinent origin (not just Indian), they were a source of illegal immigration. However they also defrauded youngsters who quite legally paid money hoping to get some sort of qualification, and often those from low income groups.

India will not get special treatment. Just the ongoing, usual reciprocal visa arrangements ---nothing new about that.
But as you have clear glasses and know everything. I am sure you know all about visa regulations for India:lol:

You should read the article in todays Sunday Times, not good news for those hoping to get a student visa for the UK.
It specifically mentions India.
Basically the UK will only take the best qualified applicants in a move to substantially reduce numbers.

Former Lancastrian Nov 6th 2016 11:56 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12097013)
The case was not about brexit, brexit will happen.
The judges in their summary went out if their way to point iut that it was not a ruling on brexit.
I suggest you ignore the posts from our brexiters and read the detailed articles in decent newspapers like the Times.

From my point of view a vote was called for to remain or leave the EU. Parliament gave authority for the vote. Leave won. Why did Parliament then need to have 3 unelected judges decide that the triggering of article 50 needed to be voted on?
Parliament knew the result.
Now as for the terms of how the BREXIT would be dealt with then thats something Parliament DIDNT think about before the vote. Obviously the longer this goes on the murkier it becomes. There are some suggestions that the longer this goes on then an argument for another vote could be held as so much has changed since the original vote.
Obviously staunch leavers want out NOW. Some want to see the terms of BREXIT before triggering article 50. Hell even some leavers might have wished they hadn't voted but from reading various articles very few if any REMAINERS are willing to accept the leave vote and want Parliament to find some way of delaying the triggering of article 50 and BREXIT won't happen.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 12:04 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097030)
From my point of view a vote was called for to remain or leave the EU. Parliament gave authority for the vote. Leave won. Why did Parliament then need to have 3 unelected judges decide that the triggering of article 50 needed to be voted on?
Parliament knew the result.
Now as for the terms of how the BREXIT would be dealt with then thats something Parliament DIDNT think about before the vote. Obviously the longer this goes on the murkier it becomes. There are some suggestions that the longer this goes on then an argument for another vote could be held as so much has changed since the original vote.
Obviously staunch leavers want out NOW. Some want to see the terms of BREXIT before triggering article 50. Hell even some leavers might have wished they hadn't voted but from reading various articles very few if any REMAINERS are willing to accept the leave vote and want Parliament to find some way of delaying the triggering of article 50 and BREXIT won't happen.

Brexit will happen , the debate which will get angrier and angrier will be the direction Brexit takes.
The conservatives are splitting between hard and soft brexiters..
The sunday times carries reports that a group of Tory mps want to see the governments plans before committing to vote for article 50.
Tnere is nothing stopping the government introducing a bill tomorrow implimenting article 50.
It would follow the terms of the judgement and not lead to unecessary delays..
The only posters suggesting that brexit is at risk are brexiters .

EMR Nov 6th 2016 12:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12097019)
How does that fit with previous posts?







I am still waiting for you to admit you are a liar by answering post 10098 on this thread.

But of course that would be being honest.

Something you are not familiar with

Do grow up, you really are becoming a sad old buffer, thats a term of endearment.
Have you not got anything better to do. Gardening, washing the car ?

Lion in Winter Nov 6th 2016 12:24 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097030)
From my point of view a vote was called for to remain or leave the EU. Parliament gave authority for the vote. Leave won. Why did Parliament then need to have 3 unelected judges decide that the triggering of article 50 needed to be voted on?
.

Apparently because Parliament authorized an advisory referendum, and that was not not an Act of Parliament overturning the European Communities Act of 1972. They authorized the expression of an opinion.

Parliament did not appeal to the judges - a private party brought the challenge to the courts of law, which they are entitled to do and then the judges were obliged to hear the case made. May wanted to trigger article 50 under Royal Prerogative but the judges ruled that, constitutionally, Parliamentary sovereignty was involved here and Parliament must be consulted.The judges are obliged to perform this role under our constitution. It has nothing to do with being elected or not and wasn't requested by Parliament. The decision may not even stand, but it's only our constitution at work. The crisis that would be provoked by overturning or ignoring the result of the referendum would surely be too great to make that in any way likely.

Not that I'm a constitutional expert or lawyer or anything.

Former Lancastrian Nov 6th 2016 12:35 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12097052)
Apparently because Parliament authorized an advisory referendum, and that was not not an Act of Parliament overturning the European Communities Act of 1972. They authorized the expression of an opinion.

Parliament did not appeal to the judges - a private party brought the challenge to the courts of law, which they are entitled to do and then the judges were obliged to hear the case made. May wanted to trigger article 50 under Royal Prerogative but the judges ruled that, constitutionally, Parliamentary sovereignty was involved here and Parliament must be consulted.The judges are obliged to perform this role under our constitution. It has nothing to do with being elected or not and wasn't requested by Parliament. The decision may not even stand, but it's only our constitution at work. The crisis that would be provoked by overturning or ignoring the result of the referendum would surely be too great to make that in any way likely.

Not that I'm a constitutional expert or lawyer or anything.

So basically when the vote was called for nobody really had an idea of what they were voting for and when and if the result was known what would then happen ;)

Interesting developments now with the Canadian Senate. There are now more alleged Independent Senators (appointed and not elected). The Tory dominated Senate now find themselves outnumbered by Independents. This could be very interesting as the last 20 or so Independent Senators were appointed by the Liberal Prime Minister.

I do have somewhat of a problem with UNELECTED officials making decisions that override decisions made by ELECTED officials.
But hey Im just a drone so what would I know what is good or bad for me as an individual or what is good for the country.

Lion in Winter Nov 6th 2016 12:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12096999)
Actually, he "made the claim" by countering the statement that various problems (and they were described) which beset the UK are to do with choices made by UK governments with one of his own saying the UK is bound by EU laws it can do nothing about until it exits the EU, whereupon it can change its laws without interference from outside.

Unless, of course, that was a complete non sequitir ;)

Odd that one should have to explain how a conversation consisting of a sequence of posts works, on a discussion forum :confused:

Well I'm glad you followed the sequence anyway. Reading these threads I sometimes think I've had a stroke or something the way peoples' thoughts seem to fly around.

EMR Nov 6th 2016 12:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097059)
So basically when the vote was called for nobody really had an idea of what they were voting for and when and if the result was known what would then happen ;)

Interesting developments now with the Canadian Senate. There are now more alleged Independent Senators (appointed and not elected). The Tory dominated Senate now find themselves outnumbered by Independents. This could be very interesting as the last 20 or so Independent Senators were appointed by the Liberal Prime Minister.

I do have somewhat of a problem with UNELECTED officials making decisions that override decisions made by ELECTED officials.
But hey Im just a drone so what would I know what is good or bad for me as an individual or what is good for the country.

A country must have an independent,unelected judiciary , beholden to no one to monitor and some times overule government.
The alternative is Putins Russia , Mugabes Zimbabwe etc etc.
We never want to go down that road.

paulry Nov 6th 2016 12:43 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12096984)
And ? Once again Brexiters cannot quote one single 'EU law' that Britain has not already agree'd to and complied with.. Just name one ! One law that we can get our teeth into, that has seriously impeded Britain's ability to rule itself.?:confused:

The EU is much more than laws. It's:
  • the massive economic and social effects of uncontrolled immigration from the EU ("...but our diversity is our strength". Yeah, right. ;));
  • the destruction of our our fisheries;
  • the cost of membership (yeah sure, we put a lot in and we get *some of it* back - decided by the EU mandarins);
  • creeping federalism.

Not bad considering Britons have only ever consented to membership of the "Common Market", huh?

Red Eric Nov 6th 2016 12:45 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12097059)
So basically when the vote was called for nobody really had an idea of what they were voting for and when and if the result was known what would then happen ;)

So - now that that is clear to you :thumbsup: - go back and see how many posters have been saying things along those lines in the 2 main threads on this subject in this part of the forum. And take careful note of the replies to those posters, too.


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