British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Fredbargate Nov 3rd 2016 12:44 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094630)
You and I chose to live in another country. We could have a separate discussion about whether or not expats should keep a UK vote in perpetuity, but that is a separate issue. I don't have a UK vote either since I have been too gone for too long.

That is no way makes the decision to involve Parliament in reviewing and approving the terms of a brexit less democratic than having inner-government officials do it alone.

But you are not in the EU as part of of the UK I am.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 12:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12094633)
But you are not in the EU as part of of the UK I am.

I may sympathize with your situation, but that in no way changes the fact that having Parliament involved in the brexit terms of exit is more democratic than not having them involved. Nor does it change the fact that what just happened, including the supreme court appeal to come, is our own British constitution in action.

Vexcore Nov 3rd 2016 12:55 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12094631)
Its a British court upholding almost 1000 years of British Parliamentary tradition.
Is that not exactly what you voted for.
UK decisions made by UK institutions.


What in the holy hell is the court doing? (nevertheless it's just delay tactics)

BREXIT is coming soon anyway (March)


Remoaners are still at it i see.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 12:58 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12094640)
What in the holy hell is the court doing? (nevertheless it's just delay tactics)

BREXIT is coming soon anyway (March)


Remoaners are still at it i see.

The government is appealing the decision made by the lower court to have Parliament participate in the Brexit terms to the supreme court.

Do you understand how your own constitution and government work? Read up, then you will be less of an angry man.

Vexcore Nov 3rd 2016 1:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094642)
The government is appealing the decision made by the lower court to have Parliament participate in the Brexit terms to the supreme court.

Do you understand how your own constitution and government work? Read up, then you will be less of an angry man.

I come across as the 'Angry Man' YES LION I AM FUMING WITH FURIOUS ANGER AND VENGEANCE :lol:

_____
Anyway

BREXIT is moving along regardless of that court bollocks.

EMR Nov 3rd 2016 1:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12094640)
What in the holy hell is the court doing? (nevertheless it's just delay tactics)

BREXIT is coming soon anyway (March)

Remoaners are still at it i see.

First of all Brexit will happen as and when the exit negotiations are complete.
All article 50 is the UK government serving notice, starting the process.
You obviously do not understand that it is also clear that you have no idea how the UK works.
Its a good job you did not have to take a test on our traditions and system of government before being given a vote.
Do I detect signs of panic among our brexiters.
Sterling has risen on news of the judgement.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 1:04 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12094645)
I come across as the 'Angry Man' YES LION I AM FUMING WITH FURIOUS ANGER AND VENGEANCE :lol:

_____
Anyway

BREXIT is moving along regardless of that court bollocks.

So do you understand what is happening at the supreme court?

mfesharne Nov 3rd 2016 1:20 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094642)
The government is appealing the decision made by the lower court to have Parliament participate in the Brexit terms to the supreme court.

Do you understand how your own constitution and government work? Read up, then you will be less of an angry man.

As I see it, the vast majority of the anger has come from the Remoaners who have spent the post referendum period squealing like stuck pigs but you also might like to look up the 'constitution of the UK'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom

As I repeatedly said much earlier in this debate (and got endlessly kaked out for doing) the 'constitution' as such doesn't exist....... it's rather more set into endless legislation etc some of which go back to 1066 & arguably possibly earlier.

ADDED

I think what you're probably referring to is the British democratic process?

lutonlad Nov 3rd 2016 1:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094604)
It is the British Constitution in action, with your democratically elected representatives doing exactly what they were elected to do.

What exactly is this "betrayal"? Is it only a betrayal if you don't like the result? The odds of them overturning the referendum are very low indeed by all accounts. Our elected Parliament will simply have a say in how this vitally important process goes. Why would you not want that? Do you prefer that it all be decided by four people you didn't even choose making backroom deals?

Bit tricky to say the least. The majority of MPs seem to favour a 'soft Brexit'.
A stupid term that really means staying in the Single Market with zero change to freedom of movement. This is surely at odds with the majority of people who voted Leave.

We are told by the EU that FOM is non negotiable - period. As the Remainers are trying to muddy the waters in terms of what Leave means, I'd be interested to know exactly how they they would have designed the 'unfair' ballot paper.

BTW I'm obviously too naive to believe that the Government of the day should have a free hand in carrying out the result of a referendum. If MPs are allowed to modify the result in such a way as to negate it, then what's the point?

SultanOfSwing Nov 3rd 2016 1:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12094663)
Bit tricky to say the least. The majority of MPs seem to favour a 'soft Brexit'.
A stupid term that really means staying in the Single Market with zero change to freedom of movement. This is surely at odds with the majority of people who voted Leave.

That's tough luck. The referendum was only regarding whether or not the UK should stay in the EU, nothing to do with the terms themselves.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 1:39 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12094663)
Bit tricky to say the least. The majority of MPs seem to favour a 'soft Brexit'.
A stupid term that really means staying in the Single Market with zero change to freedom of movement. This is surely at odds with the majority of people who voted Leave.

We are told by the EU that FOM is non negotiable - period. As the Remainers are trying to muddy the waters in terms of what Leave means, I'd be interested to know exactly how they they would have designed the 'unfair' ballot paper.

BTW I'm obviously too naive to believe that the Government of the day should have a free hand in carrying out the result of a referendum. If MPs are allowed to modify the result in such a way as to negate it, then what's the point?


To be honest a "soft brexit", where we pay to play in the single market and effectively keep freedom of movement, even if we rename it "getting work visas" always seemed the most likely outcome. While a referendum pleases the people, the decision-drivers are the multinational businesses and as you can see from the Nissan/Sunderland example, these are the people May et al are talking to. And that was even without Parliamentary involvement.

Remainers aren't trying to muddy the waters. The waters were never made clear in the first place. Voters were encouraged to vote on matters of emotion, not of fact.

jimenato Nov 3rd 2016 1:39 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12094663)
Bit tricky to say the least. The majority of MPs seem to favour a 'soft Brexit'.
A stupid term that really means staying in the Single Market with zero change to freedom of movement. This is surely at odds with the majority of people who voted Leave.

We are told by the EU that FOM is non negotiable - period. As the Remainers are trying to muddy the waters in terms of what Leave means, I'd be interested to know exactly how they they would have designed the 'unfair' ballot paper.

BTW I'm obviously too naive to believe that the Government of the day should have a free hand in carrying out the result of a referendum. If MPs are allowed to modify the result in such a way as to negate it, then what's the point?

Interesting turn of phrase. I don't think the waters need any muddying by remainers.

We could leave the EU yet still remain a member of the single market, have to follow EU law, accept freedom of movement and pay into the EU funds. We would have left though and how could that be at odds with anyone? You're surely not suggesting that any interpretation other than the simple remain/leave on the ballot paper should be inferred?

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 1:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12094650)
As I see it, the vast majority of the anger has come from the Remoaners who have spent the post referendum period squealing like stuck pigs but you also might like to look up the 'constitution of the UK'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom

As I repeatedly said much earlier in this debate (and got endlessly kaked out for doing) the 'constitution' as such doesn't exist....... it's rather more set into endless legislation etc some of which go back to 1066 & arguably possibly earlier.

Of course the constitution exists. It just isn't written down on one piece of paper like the American one, that's all. My lawyer sister spent a lot of time studying it to get her degree, so you had better not tell her that it doesn't exist :blink:

I have no idea what the pig reference is about. People disagree on political, social and economic matters. You can't make people be quiet in the name of conformity. Not in any country I want to live in anyway.

Fredbargate Nov 3rd 2016 1:43 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12094663)
Bit tricky to say the least. The majority of MPs seem to favour a 'soft Brexit'.
A stupid term that really means staying in the Single Market with zero change to freedom of movement. This is surely at odds with the majority of people who voted Leave.

We are told by the EU that FOM is non negotiable - period. As the Remainers are trying to muddy the waters in terms of what Leave means, I'd be interested to know exactly how they they would have designed the 'unfair' ballot paper.

BTW I'm obviously too naive to believe that the Government of the day should have a free hand in carrying out the result of a referendum. If MPs are allowed to modify the result in such a way as to negate it, then what's the point?

Then they will have to look for honest employment after the next general election.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 1:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12094674)
Then they will have to look for honest employment after the next general election.

And that's how it works. If your elected representatives do things that you don't like, you have the opportunity to vote them out of office. Equally, others can vote them back into office. And whoever comes out ahead takes their seat in Parliament.

The referendum asked NO questions as to how the exit should be negotiated or what it should look like. Somebody has to decide that, and I would far rather we upheld our Parliamentary system to do that than have it all done by the backroom boys.


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