British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Nov 3rd 2016 10:07 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12094531)
Hmmm - you've got me thinking now, thanks :o. Maybe I was being a bit hasty.

I was working on the assumption that as it's for the country doing the leaving to act within its Constitution, that wouldn't be a matter on which the ECJ could decide, since it only gets involved on points of Community Law. However, as Article 50 is the Community Law which stipulates that the government has to act within the Constitution, I suppose a challenge could theoretically be taken there once the other national court appeals process has been exhausted.

Be a brave ECJ judge who'd rule against a nation's Supreme Court on a matter relating to an unwritten Constitution, though, I'd say.

But the case in not about the application of article 50 but whether the PM has the right to exclude parliament from making that decision.
No one is suggesting that article 50 cannot be applied.

jimenato Nov 3rd 2016 10:14 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
On TV now:

Judgement is that MPs will get a vote.

Next step will almost certainly be to supreme court.

Commentator has just said that it potentially could go to the ECJ.:rofl:

WHAT AN UNHOLY BLOODY MESS!!

Ingles Nov 3rd 2016 10:58 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12094540)
On TV now:

Judgement is that MPs will get a vote.

Next step will almost certainly be to supreme court.

Commentator has just said that it potentially could go to the ECJ.:rofl:

WHAT AN UNHOLY BLOODY MESS!!

Info
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...gh-court-rules

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 11:03 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12094540)
On TV now:

Judgement is that MPs will get a vote.

Next step will almost certainly be to supreme court.

Commentator has just said that it potentially could go to the ECJ.:rofl:

WHAT AN UNHOLY BLOODY MESS!!

It's extremely unlikely that parliament would overturn the result of the referendum though. If it stands, this will be about how involved they are in the way in which a brexit will happen and the terms of the agreement.

I'm sure Farage and co. will be whipping up hysteria with shouts of 'betrayal' but it's just our very own justice and Parliamentary systems upholding our very own constitution - something all blue-passport lovers ought to fully support. As they keep saying, they voted 'out', not on the terms of the out. This way, our democratically elected representatives may have more say on those terms and therefore democratic British interests are served.

Vexcore Nov 3rd 2016 11:29 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094575)

I'm sure Farage and co. will be whipping up hysteria with shouts of 'betrayal' but it's just our very own justice and Parliamentary systems upholding our very own constitution - something all blue-passport lovers ought to fully support. As they keep saying, they voted 'out', not on the terms of the out. This way, our democratically elected representatives may have more say on those terms and therefore democratic British interests are served.

But it is a 'betrayal' if this doesn't pan out.... who you trying to kid? you seem to take it as a joke or something? if it's not a betrayal then what is it?

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 11:51 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12094592)
But it is a 'betrayal' if this doesn't pan out.... who you trying to kid? you seem to take it as a joke or something? if it's not a betrayal then what is it?

It is the British Constitution in action, with your democratically elected representatives doing exactly what they were elected to do.

What exactly is this "betrayal"? Is it only a betrayal if you don't like the result? The odds of them overturning the referendum are very low indeed by all accounts. Our elected Parliament will simply have a say in how this vitally important process goes. Why would you not want that? Do you prefer that it all be decided by four people you didn't even choose making backroom deals?

mfesharne Nov 3rd 2016 12:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Sky news has just said it's going to Supreme Court appeal.......

mfesharne Nov 3rd 2016 12:15 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Sky News has just interviewed the Labour spokesman who says Parliament will debate the process of Brexit but not the principle of Brexit.

But of course whether we should trust the words of any politician is a different matter. lol

paulry Nov 3rd 2016 12:18 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
If a half baked brexit that stops short of a full brexit occurs, it'll be no help to anyone. This polarisation train will just trundle on until either the UK breaks free from the EU or the EU itself collapses. Whichever way we look at it the EU will collapse - the only question is will it do it the easy way or the hard way?

Fredbargate Nov 3rd 2016 12:25 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094604)
It is the British Constitution in action, with your democratically elected representatives doing exactly what they were elected to do.


I don't have a democratically elected representative in the UK parliament yet they are deciding my future

Democracy ?

mfesharne Nov 3rd 2016 12:26 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12094531)
Hmmm - you've got me thinking now, thanks :o. Maybe I was being a bit hasty.

I was working on the assumption that as it's for the country doing the leaving to act within its Constitution, that wouldn't be a matter on which the ECJ could decide, since it only gets involved on points of Community Law. However, as Article 50 is the Community Law which stipulates that the government has to act within the Constitution, I suppose a challenge could theoretically be taken there once the other national court appeals process has been exhausted.

Be a brave ECJ judge who'd rule against a nation's Supreme Court on a matter relating to an unwritten Constitution, though, I'd say.

I'd have thought it'd be an even braver ECJ judge that'd rule against the best interests of the EU. :unsure:

The whole Brexit thing is turning into as big a stuff up as the US elections! :confused:

EMR Nov 3rd 2016 12:28 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12094575)
It's extremely unlikely that parliament would overturn the result of the referendum though. If it stands, this will be about how involved they are in the way in which a brexit will happen and the terms of the agreement.

I'm sure Farage and co. will be whipping up hysteria with shouts of 'betrayal' but it's just our very own justice and Parliamentary systems upholding our very own constitution - something all blue-passport lovers ought to fully support. As they keep saying, they voted 'out', not on the terms of the out. This way, our democratically elected representatives may have more say on those terms and therefore democratic British interests are served.

Either we uphold our hard won parliamentary traditions or we allow individual governments to override them.
I would be very suprised if after the debate the motion to proceed with article 50 was not passed.
At least it gives our elected members to debate the subject without the lies and histrionics of the brexit campaign.
It will also show just how few ideas of how to negotiate brexit the May government has.

EMR Nov 3rd 2016 12:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12094617)
Sky News has just interviewed the Labour spokesman who says Parliament will debate the process of Brexit but not the principle of Brexit.

But of course whether we should trust the words of any politician is a different matter. lol

Did you believe May when she said Brexit means Brexit, obviously not.

Lion in Winter Nov 3rd 2016 12:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12094620)
I don't have a democratically elected representative in the UK parliament yet they are deciding my future

Democracy ?

You and I chose to live in another country. We could have a separate discussion about whether or not expats should keep a UK vote in perpetuity, but that is a separate issue. I don't have a UK vote either since I have been too gone for too long.

That in no way makes the decision to involve Parliament in reviewing and approving the terms of a brexit less democratic than having inner-government officials do it alone.

EMR Nov 3rd 2016 12:43 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12094592)
But it is a 'betrayal' if this doesn't pan out.... who you trying to kid? you seem to take it as a joke or something? if it's not a betrayal then what is it?

Its a British court upholding almost 1000 years of British Parliamentary tradition.
Is that not exactly what you voted for.
UK decisions made by UK institutions.


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