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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

mfesharne Oct 2nd 2016 8:31 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12066882)
When was the vote for or against PR? I remember a referendum on the Alternative Vote, which wasn't going to be what Proportional Representation is.

AS for TM's speech to conference and TV interview today, I think this is a fair opinion from a political commentator May speech makes it clear we're leaving the single market

You're right it was AV but more or less the same thing in that it was for/against FPTP & I'll never understand why the majority voted for FPTP which to me is nothing more than a comfy deal for the major parties. :(

I was living overseas at the time but took the trouble to vote anyway.

Red Eric Oct 2nd 2016 8:36 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066876)
And incidentally, I voted for PR & the majority voted otherwise........ but I accepted the decision of the majority...... which is what the remoaniacs now need to do. ;)

And as the decision was to leave the EU but with no specification as to what that meant, I'm firmly of the opinion that discussion about the possible details or about progress so far or about whether the main players are projecting an image of knowing what they're about etc etc does not constitute dissent with the result, so you can probably stop endlessly repeating that trite line.

There's no need to try to stifle the discussion by pretending it's about something which it most clearly isn't or by constantly abusing other posters for discussing developments or speculating on the future. In my opinion, that simply indicates an insecurity on your part.

Nothing wrong with a lively discussion but if all you've got to contribute, over and over and over again was "the majority voted to leave and you must live with it" when that has quite clearly been very well understood and accepted by the majority of those who you're responding to, it isn't much of a discussion. I might as well post "Have you fed Tiddles yet?" every time you post something.

mfesharne Oct 2nd 2016 8:44 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12066893)
And as the decision was to leave the EU but with no specification as to what that meant, I'm firmly of the opinion that discussion about the possible details or about progress so far or about whether the main players are projecting an image of knowing what they're about etc etc does not constitute dissent with the result, so you can probably stop endlessly repeating that trite line.

There's no need to try to stifle the discussion by pretending it's about something which it most clearly isn't or by constantly abusing other posters for discussing developments or speculating on the future. In my opinion, that simply indicates an insecurity on your part.

Nothing wrong with a lively discussion but if all you've got to contribute, over and over and over again was "the majority voted to leave and you must live with it" when that has quite clearly been very well understood and accepted by the majority of those who you're responding to, it isn't much of a discussion. I might as well post "Have you fed Tiddles yet?" every time you post something.

Oh the irony!

I've been pointing out for weeks how we should be (constructively) discussing how we hope Brexit could/should work but all we've had from the remoaniacs is endless personal insults, moronic trolling & total bollocks about how they can all see into the future. :lol:

amideislas Oct 2nd 2016 8:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066895)
Oh the irony!

I've been pointing out for weeks how we should be (constructively) discussing how we hope Brexit could/should work but all we've had from the remoaniacs is endless personal insults, moronic trolling & total bollocks about how they can all see into the future. :lol:

Yet your standard (and consistent) response whenever at a loss is the vote count.

You need to move on. Everybody else has.

mfesharne Oct 2nd 2016 8:53 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12066897)
Yet your standard (and consistent) response whenever at a loss is the vote count.

You need to move on. Everybody else has.

so why are you & the other remoaniacs still arguing after 5164 posts? :rofl:

Red Eric Oct 2nd 2016 8:56 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066895)
Oh the irony!

I've been pointing out for weeks how we should be (constructively) discussing how we hope Brexit could/should work but all we've had from the remoaniacs is endless personal insults, moronic trolling & total bollocks about how they can all see into the future. :lol:

No you haven't.

What you've had is a stream of links from radicalised Brexiters claiming that Brexit has been and will continue to be fine and some counter-arguments from the real world pointing out that it hasn't happened yet, that the forecasts aren't too great and that the 3 Brexiteers are unable to present a unted front or to give any semblance of an impression that they even know what they are talking about. When they're not contradicting each other they're contradicting themselves.

That's when Brextremists can be bothered to say anything other than remoaniac, which they seem to think is terribly original.

la mancha Oct 2nd 2016 9:15 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12066835)
There isn't any upside for anyone. Even you have so far been unable to offer any tangible answer to that question.

By the way, why on earth would the UK impose damaging tariffs on goods it is dependent on? The tanking of the pound (there will be more) is already going to lead to inflation. Adding more burden won't help.

Financial services have already indicated, warned, and are actively obtaining office space and operating licences on the continent.

If you established a business in the UK to enable access to the single market (and now are dependent on it) and that access vanished, what would be your strategy? Note: there have been a parade of warnings from major global enterprises in the UK about this.

Automakers, for example, would clearly benefit from moving to the continent. They'd have the benefit of the single market, and still have the UK market as a bonus.

I doubt some loyalty to the Union Jack will be a serious consideration.

I have repeated over and over again, the upside is a cordial agreement where everyone helps each other to prosper. I will not say this again. We want out. If the EU did not anticipate this scenario with a member nation they should not have written Article 50 into a treaty. As it is they did do so but unfortunately they did not put any guidelines in place to deal with the scenario. And here we are.

The UK is not dependent on 815,000 German cars, is it? Renaults? Citroens? Peugeots? Fiats? Seats? German white goods? In a recession? Do you honestly, really, honestly think we will let the EU put tariffs on our goods without reciprocation? Honestly, do you? Dependent? There is a whole world out there with whom we can have free trade with so why should we buy EU goods that carry a tariff? Of course trade with Europe and the UK will continue but if tariffs are involved we will all have to pay the price of EU commissioners’ intransigence.

You are talking as if all trade between the UK and Europe will cease. If tariffs are involved, so what? Trade will continue. Businesses must weigh up what is best: build a new factory in the EU and come under their laws and tax regime or remain in the UK and trade with Europe with (possibly) tariffs.

Automakers, and by that I mean Nissan (if you know of any others then tell me because I have not looked them up and do not know) want to know if we will pay the tariff charge if the EU puts one on UK goods. There again I assume German car makers will be asking Merkel the same thing as they, too, will suffer from a tariff. Do you know of any Brit in the UK who is dependent on a German car? Do you?

As for financial services, this works both ways.

European banks will need to inject as much as €40 billion (£29 billion) of capital into their UK operations in order to keep doing business in the country after Brexit, according to a report from Boston Consulting Group.

Under EU law at the moment, European banks can operate branches in the UK that do not need to be separately capitalised from the parent company abroad.

The use of this passport, which allows them access to the single market of 28 nations, in London is under threat after the Brexit vote.

With the UK out of the EU, European banks will have to set up subsidiaries, forcing them to pump extra capital into the UK. Much of European banks' derivatives and wholesale markets operations are based in London.

Can they afford to?

Eric, it is about capital. Without capital and credit Eurozone businesses will remain moribund.

Just wait until our press tells Europeans what they are heading for if their commissioners want to be stubborn!

EMR Oct 2nd 2016 9:24 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12066909)
I have repeated over and over again, the upside is a cordial agreement where everyone helps each other to prosper. I will not say this again. We want out. If the EU did not anticipate this scenario with a member nation they should not have written Article 50 into a treaty. As it is they did do so but unfortunately they did not put any guidelines in place to deal with the scenario. And here we are.

The UK is not dependent on 815,000 German cars, is it? Renaults? Citroens? Peugeots? Fiats? Seats? German white goods? In a recession? Do you honestly, really, honestly think we will let the EU put tariffs on our goods without reciprocation? Honestly, do you? Dependent? There is a whole world out there with whom we can have free trade with so why should we buy EU goods that carry a tariff? Of course trade with Europe and the UK will continue but if tariffs are involved we will all have to pay the price of EU commissioners’ intransigence.

You are talking as if all trade between the UK and Europe will cease. If tariffs are involved, so what? Trade will continue. Businesses must weigh up what is best: build a new factory in the EU and come under their laws and tax regime or remain in the UK and trade with Europe with (possibly) tariffs.

Automakers, and by that I mean Nissan (if you know of any others then tell me because I have not looked them up and do not know) want to know if we will pay the tariff charge if the EU puts one on UK goods. There again I assume German car makers will be asking Merkel the same thing as they, too, will suffer from a tariff. Do you know of any Brit in the UK who is dependent on a German car? Do you?

As for financial services, this works both ways.

European banks will need to inject as much as €40 billion (£29 billion) of capital into their UK operations in order to keep doing business in the country after Brexit, according to a report from Boston Consulting Group.

Under EU law at the moment, European banks can operate branches in the UK that do not need to be separately capitalised from the parent company abroad.

The use of this passport, which allows them access to the single market of 28 nations, in London is under threat after the Brexit vote.

With the UK out of the EU, European banks will have to set up subsidiaries, forcing them to pump extra capital into the UK. Much of European banks' derivatives and wholesale markets operations are based in London.

Can they afford to?

Eric, it is about capital. Without capital and credit Eurozone businesses will remain moribund.

Just wait until our press tells Europeans what they are heading for if their commissioners want to be stubborn!


So as usual from an Ultra if anything goes wrong it will be nothing to do with the policies of the UK government but all the fault of those nasty foreigners.
I cannot see any European who can both walk and talk taking any notice of our press particularly those papers who do not bother to hide their disdain for anyone not from the UK.

DaveLovesDee Oct 2nd 2016 9:49 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066895)
Oh the irony!

I've been pointing out for weeks how we should be (constructively) discussing how we hope Brexit could/should work but all we've had from the remoaniacs is endless personal insults, moronic trolling & total bollocks about how they can all see into the future. :lol:

I tried that a few days ago. It lasted about 10 posts.

paulry Oct 2nd 2016 11:02 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12066578)
Well, you know, women have a silly maternal "soft spot" for pesky foreigners (and their snotty kids), and being foreigners themselves, well...

At least they're white foreigners.

Wow, you really do have a chip on your shoulder.

paulry Oct 2nd 2016 11:12 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12066661)
This has been going on since well before a Brexit was even a gleam in anyone's eye. Nothing new there. What matters though is what the rest us do so that that garbage never becomes acceptable nor entered into "normal" political discussion. Such stuff - and those who use it - is as absurd as it is despicable.

Sure, let's all follow the US model that has worked so well not - and got worse since Obummer came to power :rolleyes:

paulry Oct 2nd 2016 11:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12066707)
At least we have one brexiter who accepts that it could be unsucessfull.
That makes a change.
Is realism finally starting to dawn.

Few things are certain in life but one thing is: a net annual increase of half a million - if allowed to continue will result in a reduced standard of living for the overwhelming majority of Britons and future generations - even for many of those with 30 pieces of silver in their pockets ;)

Mapped: how much immigration your area will see by 2024 – and six things you should know about it

paulry Oct 2nd 2016 11:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12066761)
Well that wasn't what the pro-leave campaigns said at all. They were completely certain that terrible things would happen if we stayed within the EU, from "uncontrolled mass migration" to economic collapse from being tied to what they portrayed as a sinking EU.

Now you say they didn't know that at all.

So which is it?


Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066768)
You might like to re-read my posts because I've repeatedly made VERY clear that IMO both sides fed us nothing but BS, propaganda & lies.

But of course, neither side could give much if any fact because they, like everyone else cannot see into the future.

Nice try though. :lol:

Yep. The fear and threaten campaign waged by Remain which benefited from the resources of big business, current and past PMs, the British state, the EU, the American president, and countless other big establishment figures dwarfed what was available to Leave yet Leave prevailed. Its a modern day David and Goliath story and for anyone suggest that Leave had an unfair advantage is nothing short of a delusion.

DaveLovesDee Oct 3rd 2016 12:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12066954)
Sure, let's all follow the US model that has worked so well not - and got worse since Obummer came to power :rolleyes:

Have you direct personal experience of the effect of Obama's policies, or are you just relying on certain sections of the media for your information?

Also, why the constant labellingf (remainiacs, remoaners, Killary Clinton and Obummer) for those you disagree with?


Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12066961)
Few things are certain in life but one thing is: a net annual increase of half a million - if allowed to continue will result in a reduced standard of living for the overwhelming majority of Britons and future generations - even for many of those with 30 pieces of silver in their pockets ;)

Mapped: how much immigration your area will see by 2024 – and six things you should know about it

I thought Leavers were of the opinion that no-one could predict the future, but your link appears to agree with my assertion that educated guesses can lead to conclusions (but only as long as the conclusions support your opinion it seems).

The map in your link doesn't take into account Wales or Scotland, both of which are looking for people to move there.

paulry Oct 3rd 2016 3:22 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12066987)
Have you direct personal experience of the effect of Obama's policies, or are you just relying on certain sections of the media for your information?

Also, why the constant labellingf (remainiacs, remoaners, Killary Clinton and Obummer) for those you disagree with?

Sure, the media is my main source - just like it is for most. I also have quite a lot of family who live over there and their experiences match most of it. Are you saying all the disharmony was under-reported previously. Surely all the deaths couldn't have gone under-reported previously?



Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12066987)
I thought Leavers were of the opinion that no-one could predict the future, but your link appears to agree with my assertion that educated guesses can lead to conclusions (but only as long as the conclusions support your opinion it seems).

The map in your link doesn't take into account Wales or Scotland, both of which are looking for people to move there.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to see that an annual net increase in UK population of half a million is going to end in tears.


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