re: Post EU Referendum
 

One (Owen Smith) of the two leadership candidates vowed that, should he be elected leader, he would try to stop May triggering Article 50 unless she promised a 2nd referendum or an election to approve the final deal.

He was roundly defeated, with Jeremy Corbyn winning a larger majority than the huge one he already held. Corbyn had made it clear that should he win, Labour would work with the result of the referendum.

So, Labour (that is the party membership as a whole) endorsed the candidate who clearly said the referendum result will be respected.

However, I think the Westminster MPs on all sides might well have an opportunity to have a say in whether they think the government is or is not prepared enough to start the exit negotiations prior to the formal notification - and it's worth noting that there are probably as many Conservatives as Labour MPs with concerns about that and about the form of Brexit that will be aimed for.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

I am not softening! I hope the rules will be the same for all immigrants. What I meant was that any move towards equality is better than none.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

You didn't answer the question about immigrants possibly not having equality with UK citizens.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Boris Johnson: BBC is 'infuriatingly anti-Brexit' but remains 'single greatest ambassador of our culture' - The Telegraph

Funny though, not a peep about the extreme anti-EU, mega-brexit, ultra sensationalist, most read and politically powerful media in Britain; the tabloids.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

I know the UK is more dependent on goods trade with the EU blah, blah, blah. I also know that a recession-hit UK will buy less goods from the EU so increasing the possibility of a recession in the EU with rising unemployment blah,blah, blah. We all know this. It is not worth either of us repeating it again.

I also know that the EU and Eurozone in particular, are reliant on the London capital markets for capital and credit for businesses throughout the EU and Eurozone. The UK is in a very good negotiating position. Without capital and credit Eurozone businesses will remain moribund.

If UK businesses move to the EU and we are pushed out of the single market then they, too, will be excluded from capital and credit for their companies. They will have to go to European institutions that have less access and expertise with the capital markets.

Your simplistic comment that the EU could very well subject UK goods to tariffs and the UK will not reciprocate just about sums up your aptitude for this discussion.

Your very comment that there is no upside for anyone demonstrates your pessimistic approach. I say we can all come to a satisfactory agreement, both parties in a position of strength to help each other return to pre-crisis levels and go forward from there.

The main issue is not goods but finance. Without the necessary capital or credit businesses come to a stop and unemployment rises.

Now we have the world’s financial sector asking their governments to lobby the EU to come to an agreement to safeguard London’s status as an international financial hub. They say, ‘The City of London is a global financial center, not just Europe’s.’ What does that tell you?

re: Post EU Referendum
 

I understand that, one of the reasons why Labour won't get into power not till 2025 at least... could you image the uproar if the result was overlooked/turned ?


Dread to think



BBC = biased


Images hurt huh?

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Have you considered attending remedial reading classes?

re: Post EU Referendum
 

There isn't any upside for anyone. Even you have so far been unable to offer any tangible answer to that question.

By the way, why on earth would the UK impose damaging tariffs on goods it is dependent on? The tanking of the pound (there will be more) is already going to lead to inflation. Adding more burden won't help.

Financial services have already indicated, warned, and are actively obtaining office space and operating licences on the continent.

If you established a business in the UK to enable access to the single market (and now are dependent on it) and that access vanished, what would be your strategy? Note: there have been a parade of warnings from major global enterprises in the UK about this.

Automakers, for example, would clearly benefit from moving to the continent. They'd have the benefit of the single market, and still have the UK market as a bonus.

I doubt some loyalty to the Union Jack will be a serious consideration.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

I would say the main issue is neither goods nor finance but politics ;)

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Personally, I voted for what I believe in. My opinions only partly formed by beliefs, as did my experiences.

No-one knew what would have happened had we remained a member of the EU, but we were bombarded with things such as '70 million Turks will be flooding the EU (despite every EU member state being able to veto it Turkey joining), or that the UK will have to join the Euro (despite the UK having a permanent opt-out). Note that Boris has now said he will help Turkey join the same EU we've voted to leave.

Had we remained, one could reasonably conclude (based on previous performance) that the UK would manage to get opt-outs from EU rules it didn't like, despite having a say in the drafting of said rules. The UK would also have held the Presidency of the European Council from July 2018, where they could have influenced the direction of the EU.

As you say, no-one knows the future, but lots of jobs rely on making predictions/educated guesses, such as;

Weather forecasters
Astrologers
Mechanical Engineers predicting the failure rate of components
Stock market traders
Economists
Politicians
Airlines and airports
and even restaurants predicting how many of which menu items will be most popular that day.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

:goodpost:

re: Post EU Referendum
 

I somehow doubt that your view of equality is the same of that in UKIP or on the right of the Tory party or those who voted to leave because of immigration, all immigration.
Be carefull for what you wish for.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

You've proved my point - Which is that as none of us can see into the future, we all had to decide on what we believed would happen in the future (that no-one can know with any certainty)

Therefore, we decide on opinion which is decided by beliefs & experiences etc.

As an aside, it's worth noting that this referendum was basically decided on the principle on proportional representation (ie) one man one vote & every vote counts as much as every other vote.

Had we had PR at the last election things would have been very different & UKIP would have been the kingmakers for Cons/Lab which at one end of the scale proves how pisspoor the FPTP system is & at the other proves how PR is a far more democratic system.

And incidentally, I voted for PR & the majority voted otherwise........ but I accepted the decision of the majority...... which is what the remoaniacs now need to do. ;)

re: Post EU Referendum
 

When is it going to get into your dense cranium that no remainer on here is still debating the referendum ( unlike some of our ultras who constantly post anti EU , anti immigrant links ) .
The debate now is about what will be best for the UK in what ever form brexit takes.
" capiche ".
Its about the FUTURE.

re: Post EU Referendum
 

When was the vote for or against PR? I remember a referendum on the Alternative Vote, which wasn't going to be what Proportional Representation is.

AS for TM's speech to conference and TV interview today, I think this is a fair opinion from a political commentator May speech makes it clear we're leaving the single market