British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Oct 2nd 2016 2:09 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12066661)
This has been going on since well before a Brexit was even a gleam in anyone's eye. Nothing new there. What matters though is what the rest us do so that that garbage never becomes acceptable nor entered into "normal" political discussion. Such stuff - and those who use it - is as absurd as it is despicable.

It will be going on long after brexit, the vote was just an excuse for some to emerge from the sewer of ingnorance and intolerance that has always festered within UK society.

Lion in Winter Oct 2nd 2016 2:22 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12066451)
The difference is, that laws deemed unnecessary can be repealed.

The difference regarding immigration is, that the rules of entry will be the same for non-EU and EU immigrants.

Could be repealed. But will they? What interests would be served by so doing?

With the repeal of the European Communities Act while simultaneously passing ALL EU-related law straight British law the politicians can say "now we are sovereign and independent" but make no actual or effective change to any of the laws and rules at all.

And on the famous immigrant question - we have no idea whether European and non-Europeans will be treated the same or not. The US, for example, which operates a Byzantine immigration system, has among its rules annual caps on immigrants by country of origin and also caps by country of origin for refugees.

And there is nothing to stop the UK from setting annual caps which exactly match the number of immigrants we receive now and with the skills (or lack thereof)that they have now, thereby upsetting the status quo and big, powerful business not at all. Maybe there will be a few token changes with insignificant numbers involved. Business as usual, just called something else. It isn't as though all governments everywhere didn't have form for exactly this outcome.

But everyone will be busy brandishing their flags and blue passports and won't notice

amideislas Oct 2nd 2016 2:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066648)
There you go again with your BS belief that you can see into the future.

Your statement is absolute speculation & nothing more whatsoever yet you so arrogantly claim that what you say is fact when none of it is.

It'll take years, if not decades AFTER Brexit is complete before anyone will know how successful it's been & yet you & the rest of the remoaniacs think you already know it's going to be a failure.

Your comment reminds me of the words of Solzhenitsyn who wrote:

"One can build the Empire State Building, discipline the Prussian army, make a state hierarchy mightier than God, and yet fail to overcome the unaccountable superiority of certain human beings."


Well, I at least provide sound evidence and sound reasoning for what I said.

It's no longer a matter of whether Britain will be damaged. It's a matter of how badly. The basic conditions simply do not exist to reasonably support any theory of a flourishing post-brexit Britain. This is established fact.

Even Teresa May recently admitted it, although naturally she has an obligation to spin that truth in the most positive light.

There is only ONE group of economists that predict any upside for the UK, and that's the paid-for-spin "Economists for Brexit". And their predictions are wildly contrary to the (unusually unanimous) consensus of credible analysts.

https://next-geebee.ft.com/image/v1/...down&width=600
Brexit in seven charts — the economic impact

Add to that the more recent indications that Britain will indeed leave the single market, which represents a significant part of the UK economy. A parade of manufacturers, financial Institutions, and global enterprises specifically headquartered in the UK to access the single market have recently have said openly that if the UK loses the single market, they'll have no choice but to seriously consider moving their presence to the single market. Major financial and insurance institutions are already securing office space on the continent for that purpose.

Look, the dream of a "flourishing" post-brexit Britain is no longer on the table. It's just how it is.

The only thing now is what Teresa may keeps saying, "make the best of it". That in no way suggests that Britain is going to experience anything resembling prosperity any time soon. The fundamentals simply don't support it. By all accounts.

The people voted. Now, this is what we have to work with. Let's try to make the best of it, while doing everything to avoid political chaos and widespread discontent as Britain begins to downsize.

In fact, her comments of the last few days continue to suggest precisely that.

And then there's Scotland, whose trade with the EU dwarfs its trade with the UK. They are (rightfully) increasingly nervous about what Westminster is doing, and are again, making independence noises. Whether that succeeds or not is debatable, but it will serve to add even more chaos to an already chaotic political climate.

So, no, Britain is not going to be "better off". And again, since brexit will not achieve what you previously said were the reasons you voted for it, do you still think you made the right decision?

Lion in Winter Oct 2nd 2016 2:30 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12066663)
It will be going on long after brexit, the vote was just an excuse for some to emerge from the sewer of ingnorance and intolerance that has always festered within UK society.


Yeah but some of us have long memories ;)

http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-.../10/403770.jpg

Fredbargate Oct 2nd 2016 2:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12066676)
Well, I at least provide sound evidence and sound reasoning for what I said.

ESTIMATES


mfesharne Oct 2nd 2016 2:59 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12066676)
Well, I at least provide sound evidence and sound reasoning for what I said.

It's no longer a matter of whether Britain will be damaged. It's a matter of how badly. The basic conditions simply do not exist to reasonably support any theory of a flourishing post-brexit Britain. This is established fact.

Even Teresa May recently admitted it, although naturally she has an obligation to spin that truth in the most positive light.

There is only ONE group of economists that predict any upside for the UK, and that's the paid-for-spin "Economists for Brexit". And their predictions are wildly contrary to the (unusually unanimous) consensus of credible analysts.

https://next-geebee.ft.com/image/v1/...down&width=600
Brexit in seven charts — the economic impact

Add to that the more recent indications that Britain will indeed leave the single market, which represents a significant part of the UK economy. A parade of manufacturers, financial Institutions, and global enterprises specifically headquartered in the UK to access the single market have recently have said openly that if the UK loses the single market, they'll have no choice but to seriously consider moving their presence to the single market. Major financial and insurance institutions are already securing office space on the continent for that purpose.

Look, the dream of a "flourishing" post-brexit Britain is no longer on the table. It's just how it is.

The only thing now is what Teresa may keeps saying, "make the best of it". That in no way suggests that Britain is going to experience anything resembling prosperity any time soon. The fundamentals simply don't support it. By all accounts.

The people voted. Now, this is what we have to work with. Let's try to make the best of it, while doing everything to avoid political chaos and widespread discontent as Britain begins to downsize.

In fact, her comments of the last few days continue to suggest precisely that.

And then there's Scotland, whose trade with the EU dwarfs its trade with the UK. They are (rightfully) increasingly nervous about what Westminster is doing, and are again, making independence noises. Whether that succeeds or not is debatable, but it will serve to add even more chaos to an already chaotic political climate.

So, no, Britain is not going to be "better off". And again, since brexit will not achieve what you previously said were the reasons you voted for it, do you still think you made the right decision?

You're truly & absolutely bonkers....... There is no "sound evidence" about Brexit because it hasn't happened yet & what's more, A50 hasn't even been triggered yet so how TF can anything you provide be "sound evidence"?

We won't have ANY sound evidence about how successful or unsuccessful Brexit has been for years at the very least! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...pstbvsru3c.gif

amideislas Oct 2nd 2016 3:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066688)
You're truly & absolutely bonkers....... There is no "sound evidence" about Brexit because it hasn't happened yet & what's more, A50 hasn't even been triggered yet so how TF can anything you provide be "sound evidence"?

We won't have ANY sound evidence about how successful or unsuccessful Brexit has been for years at the very least! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...pstbvsru3c.gif

Well the data isn't mine. It's the assessments of those who know a hell of a lot more about it than I do. Although I do dig in to their methods to try to assess whether it's real or politically motivated.

So then, rather than posting your opinion, why don't you offer some credible facts which tangibly counter that?

Offer up some credible plan which will counter the inevitable downsizing of the economy as significant parts of it are abandoned.

Then offer up a credible illustration of how the UK will be able to avoid increasing political dissent as the results don't deliver what the electorate expects.

Finally, offer up a counter-argument as to why the consensus of credible economic analysts are "bonkers".

Fact is, there isn't much to be had. So, good luck with that.

EMR Oct 2nd 2016 3:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066688)
You're truly & absolutely bonkers....... There is no "sound evidence" about Brexit because it hasn't happened yet & what's more, A50 hasn't even been triggered yet so how TF can anything you provide be "sound evidence"?

We won't have ANY sound evidence about how successful or unsuccessful Brexit has been for years at the very least! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...pstbvsru3c.gif

At least we have one brexiter who accepts that it could be unsucessfull.
That makes a change.
Is realism finally starting to dawn.

Lion in Winter Oct 2nd 2016 3:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
For those in any doubt as to just how difficult, lengthy and convoluted this legal divorce process on laws would be, read this. And not just the headline.

Reality Check: How would the UK rid itself of EU law? - BBC News

mfesharne Oct 2nd 2016 4:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
FFS; There are absolutely NO FACTS WHATSOEVER about how successful or unsuccessful a post BREXIT UK will be....... Absolutely everything on both sides of the debate is 100% speculation because it hasn't happened yet & absolutely no-one on the planet can see into the future.

The ONLY true FACT that can be said is that the majority voted to leave......

amideislas Oct 2nd 2016 4:08 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well, Ms. May has just solved all that. Simply adopt EU as UK law and worry about it later. And there's this "prerogative power" thing, so parliament only need to approve the bill, and then the executive branch can make all the decisions without pesky Parliamentary involvement. It is a democracy after all.

Of course, huge swaths of EU law can't simply be "written into UK law", there are thousands of dependencies on EU membership that would leave gaping holes in UK law.

Clever move though. She's not stupid. Politically, it will be a winner. Even if it turns out to be unworkable.

amideislas Oct 2nd 2016 4:12 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066723)
FFS; There are absolutely NO FACTS WHATSOEVER about how successful or unsuccessful a post BREXIT UK will be....... Absolutely everything on both sides of the debate is 100% speculation because it hasn't happened yet & absolutely no-one on the planet can see into the future.

The ONLY true FACT that can be said is that the majority voted to leave......

Nobody is denying that leave won the vote. We're long past that now. You should try to get past it too.

I suppose you could say that we can't know the weather tomorrow with absolute certainty. Although meteorologists do a pretty good job of predicting tomorrow's weather by looking at meteorological conditions, and from what they know of physics and historical behaviour of weather, they're generally pretty close.

So, If the forecast for tomorrow is for cold and rain, can you offer any reason why it will miraculously become sunny and hot? Or is that just what you'd like it to be?

Vexcore Oct 2nd 2016 4:31 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
End of march, so March 2019 fully out. (unless someone takes the piss)

I bet Labour are fuming right now.


WOO HOOO

EMR Oct 2nd 2016 4:34 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12066733)
End of march, so March 2019 fully out. (unless someone takes the piss)

I bet Labour are fuming right now.


WOO HOOO

Are you smoking crack, you certainly must have had a good lunch.

Lion in Winter Oct 2nd 2016 4:35 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12066723)
FFS; There are absolutely NO FACTS WHATSOEVER about how successful or unsuccessful a post BREXIT UK will be.........

Yet you felt it was a good idea for people to rush out and vote for it nonetheless?


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