British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DigitalGhost May 22nd 2018 5:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12503716)
As Eric would say, he's back on his hobby-horse ... Give it a rest. We all know you don't agree with helping refugees.

I'm all for helping them but I think countries should go through the correct channels and provide aid and supplies to refugee camps and orgaanisations in people's home countries rather than it being a back door route to permanent immigration to first-world economies. The latter is really a short sighted notion and doesn't really help anybody in the long term.

DaveLovesDee May 22nd 2018 5:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503695)
Weird how some of you seem to support Germany's right to do that but don't extend the same support to Britain.


Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12503698)
:confused: I support Britain doing the same ... opening their doors to refugees ....


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503700)
I'm sure you do. You also probably won't be surprised to learn that I don't support Britain doing that at all. In fact I try not to think about it because it makes me angry.

So what are you saying we don't support Britain's right to do?


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503703)
All I see is a union that doesn't work. It hampers its members over trivial matters often when it shouldn't and fails to do anything when it really should be exercising power (e.g. Germany's ridiculous refugee policy or the Spain authorities oppressing and brutalising their own citizens).

You mean it's not a union that works for the UK (except for the numerous opt-outs and the rebate). Funny that the Referendum only happened because some in the Tory party decided that the latest opt-outs agreed by the EU weren't enough, despite the UK getting most of what it had asked for.

Germany's refugee policy is Germany's decision, and Spain's treatment of it's protesters is Spain's. Had the EU interfered in a member state's internal affairs, people would have been yelling loudly that the EU had no business doing so. Either you want the EU telling member states what to do, or you want member states to control their own affairs? Or are you just anti-EU?

DigitalGhost May 22nd 2018 5:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12503727)
So what are you saying we don't support Britain's right to do?



You mean it's not a union that works for the UK (except for the numerous opt-outs and the rebate). Funny that the Referendum only happened because some in the Tory party decided that the latest opt-outs agreed by the EU weren't enough, despite the UK getting most of what it had asked for.

Germany's refugee policy is Germany's decision, and Spain's treatment of it's protesters is Spain's. Had the EU interfered in a member state's internal affairs, people would have been yelling loudly that the EU had no business doing so. Either you want the EU telling member states what to do, or you want member states to control their own affairs? Or are you just anti-EU?

The only thing I'm only seriously opposed to as far as the EU is concerned is freedom of movement. I have to say that I don't think the union is really working in general at the moment though.

Germany's decision had a serious knock on effect across the entire continent so the EU should have stepped in on that one. There always seem quick enough to start badmouthing the UK whenever we do anything that they consider to be wrong.

DaveLovesDee May 22nd 2018 5:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503726)
I'm all for helping them but I think countries should go through the correct channels and provide aid and supplies to refugee camps and orgaanisations in people's home countries rather than it being a back door route to permanent immigration to first-world economies. The latter is really a short sighted notion and doesn't really help anybody in the long term.

I think we should stop overthrowing political leaders in other countries. They should use the correct channels too!

We should also stop bombing the shit out of those countries. The only way to end a war militarily is putting soldiers on the ground, and the Americans aren't going to do that because they still remember Vietnam, and they are still trying to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq. They're not in the mood for another war, and no other countries will do it without them.

DaveLovesDee May 22nd 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503733)
The only thing I'm only seriously opposed to as far as the EU is concerned is freedom of movement. I have to say that I don't think the union is really working in general at the moment though.

Oh well, we're leaving. It's someone else's problem. Not ours.


Germany's decision had a serious knock on effect across the entire continent so the EU should have stepped in on that one. There always seem quick enough to start badmouthing the UK whenever we do anything that they consider to be wrong.
Germany didn't do anything contrary to EU law regarding those refugees. And the UK has made a number of infractions over the years (18 since 2002).

Red Eric May 22nd 2018 5:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503733)
The only thing I'm only seriously opposed to as far as the EU is concerned is freedom of movement. I have to say that I don't think the union is really working in general at the moment though.

In general?

So, in relation to nations other than the UK and without mentioning anything at all to do with hobby-horses ;), in what other ways do you think the other 27 nations don't see things working all that well?


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503733)
Germany's decision had a serious knock on effect across the entire continent so the EU should have stepped in on that one. There always seem quick enough to start badmouthing the UK whenever we do anything that they consider to be wrong.

Could we have some examples, please, of occasions prior to the Brexit negotiations when the EU badmouthed the UK for doing something they considered to be wrong?

Thanks :thumbup:

EMR May 22nd 2018 6:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503703)
All I see is a union that doesn't work. It hampers its members over trivial matters often when it shouldn't and fails to do anything when it really should be exercising power (e.g. Germany's ridiculous refugee policy or the Spain authorities oppressing and brutalising their own citizens).

Are suggesting that the EU become the central givernment with authority over the actions and policies of its member states.
I thought that was the very thing some brexiters in their ignorance claimed it was which is why they voted yo leave.

EMR May 22nd 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503703)
All I see is a union that doesn't work. It hampers its members over trivial matters often when it shouldn't and fails to do anything when it really should be exercising power (e.g. Germany's ridiculous refugee policy or the Spain authorities oppressing and brutalising their own citizens).

Are suggesting that the EU become the central givernment with authority over the actions and policies of its member states.
I thought that was the very thing some brexiters in their ignorance claimed it was which is why they voted to leave.

007Steve May 22nd 2018 7:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
This is, of course, those nasty foreigners' fault....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-commonwealth

la mancha May 22nd 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12503755)
In general?

So, in relation to nations other than the UK and without mentioning anything at all to do with hobby-horses ;), in what other ways do you think the other 27 nations don't see things working all that well?


Could we have some examples, please, of occasions prior to the Brexit negotiations when the EU badmouthed the UK for doing something they considered to be wrong?

Thanks :thumbup:

And that is just the point. Whenever someone disagrees with the EU they feel the wrath of the EU. As long as we all toe the line, no matter how bitter the taste, there is no problem. Greece is a perfect example.

And as long as the ECB keeps pumping trillions into the Eurozone, effectively buying Europe, who is going to complain. When it finishes and the UK’s funding stops I think there will be arguments over who gets what from what is left.

amideislas May 22nd 2018 7:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12503703)
All I see is a union that doesn't work. It hampers its members over trivial matters often when it shouldn't and fails to do anything when it really should be exercising power (e.g. Germany's ridiculous refugee policy or the Spain authorities oppressing and brutalising their own citizens).

Right. That's all you see. And that's why it's amusing.

DaveLovesDee May 22nd 2018 8:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12503797)
This is, of course, those nasty foreigners' fault....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-commonwealth

Just think, after we leave, that'll be another couple of FTAs we'll need to negotiate........


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12503799)
And that is just the point. Whenever someone disagrees with the EU they feel the wrath of the EU. As long as we all toe the line, no matter how bitter the taste, there is no problem. Greece is a perfect example.

If you infringe the riules, expect that you'll be dealt with according to the procedures in place for that. 'Toeing the line' is just following the rules that were agreed to.


And as long as the ECB keeps pumping trillions into the Eurozone, effectively buying Europe, who is going to complain. When it finishes and the UK’s funding stops I think there will be arguments over who gets what from what is left.
It'll then be someone else's problem, not ours.

Red Eric May 22nd 2018 9:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12503799)
And that is just the point. Whenever someone disagrees with the EU they feel the wrath of the EU. As long as we all toe the line, no matter how bitter the taste, there is no problem. Greece is a perfect example.

Greece is not a perfect example. It just happens - at the moment - to suit the Brexiters to keep citing it, without taking into account the range of issues and constraints involved. Had the EU stepped in and provided cheap or free loans and /or debt restructuring, it would have suited your purpose just as well.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12503799)
And as long as the ECB keeps pumping trillions into the Eurozone, effectively buying Europe, who is going to complain.

Germany for one, by all accounts. Although according to Brexiters, Germany runs the show.

Doesn't really stack up, does it?


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12503799)
When it finishes and the UK’s funding stops I think there will be arguments over who gets what from what is left.

And I think that's another distortion.

Clearly there'll be some sort of jigging around with regards to contributions from the members and other revenue raising measures, and to the spending priorities. No doubt there'll be some jostling between the various representatives as to their respective viewpoints - in fact that's already under way. But voices are being heard and positions defined and that's all part of a healthy group decision-making process.

I wouldn't get too excited about the prospect of a dramatic schoolyard scrap at the time of the UK's departure, though. It'll probably be sorted out reasonably amicably by then. And - who knows? - the UK might be volunteering to carry on making a good, healthy contribution in order to protect its interests over one thing or another. Any extension to the transition period would almost certainly cost a few bob :cool:

la mancha May 22nd 2018 10:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12503826)
Greece is not a perfect example. It just happens - at the moment - to suit the Brexiters to keep citing it, without taking into account the range of issues and constraints involved. Had the EU stepped in and provided cheap or free loans and /or debt restructuring, it would have suited your purpose just as well.


Germany for one, by all accounts. Although according to Brexiters, Germany runs the show.

Doesn't really stack up, does it?


And I think that's another distortion.

Clearly there'll be some sort of jigging around with regards to contributions from the members and other revenue raising measures, and to the spending priorities. No doubt there'll be some jostling between the various representatives as to their respective viewpoints - in fact that's already under way. But voices are being heard and positions defined and that's all part of a healthy group decision-making process.

I wouldn't get too excited about the prospect of a dramatic schoolyard scrap at the time of the UK's departure, though. It'll probably be sorted out reasonably amicably by then. And - who knows? - the UK might be volunteering to carry on making a good, healthy contribution in order to protect its interests over one thing or another. Any extension to the transition period would almost certainly cost a few bob :cool:

‘…in what other ways do you think the other 27 nations don't see things working all that well?’

Germany for one. So a member state is complaining! In other words, they do not see things working all that well.

Greece is a perfect example. They disagreed with the way things turned out and the EU/Eurozone turned on them.

As for the member states jiggling around for contributions, not my problem.

Stacks up okay for me.

amideislas May 23rd 2018 5:56 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Wow. How is it that the truth becomes so distorted? Is it the tabloids? Or is it just the need to rationalise all this?

​​​​​​Reality will sort them out eventually, but it's sometimes a bit creepy to watch.


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