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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

jimenato May 20th 2018 12:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502482)
I assume that when you say "globally" and "outside of England", you mean in Europe. I doubt most people in Asia or the Americas could care less tbh. Many people I've spoken with on other continents have said that they think the way the UK allows Europe to dictate immigration policy is madness.

You have to wonder why no other trade bloc in the world has copied the EU's FoM model. Surely if it was such a beneficial and amazing system then everyone else would be scrambling to implement it, no?

It's because there is no other trade bloc like the EU. The single internal market is easily the most sophisticated international trade mechanism ever devised. You simply cannot compare the EU internal market to anything else in the world.

The CBI reckons it benefits the UK economy by around £70bn per year as opposed to the approx £9bn (net) we pay for membership.

I doubt we will lose all of the benefits of the internal market when we leave despite the best efforts of the hard Brexiteers, but that's what is at risk by leaving it.

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12502486)
by " outside of England" I include the EU-27. Even within those member states, real "anti-EU" sentiment is on the fringe. Few are "rabidly pro-EU", but precious few subscribe to the same rabid anti-EU sentiment that so many in England do. But I believe that's a product of an ubiquitously sensationalist (and politically active) British press.

As far as the "rest of the world", the Asians and Americans look on with economic interest. After all, the EU is the world's first or second largest economy, and trade with that market is indeed significant. Japan has been warning Britain since the referendum (in language about as strong as the Japanese ever muster).

Like England, the US is in "protectionist" mode at the moment, and seem to be anti-everything, but when it comes to Britain, see nothing more than a few bargains to be had in negotiations with a soon-to-be desperate country open to all kinds of concessions. Trump recently said he plans to demand the NHS pay more for drugs. You can be sure that's just the beginning. And he'll likely get most anything he demands, because the UK is going to be desperate for some kind of trade deal.

​​​​China is far more interested in trade with the EU, and already enjoys a huge trade surplus with the EU. Canada, Mexico, and loads of others as well. Hardly "anti-EU"...

OK so you accuse the US of protectionism and that's fair enough but what about EU protectionism? That is absolutely a thing and to ignore its existence would be extremely hypocritical.

Additionally, the Japanese will always go wherever they think meets their own economic interest. They always have and always will. EU membership probably did play a part in the decision of some Japanese corporations to base their EMEA operations out of Britain but then again Japan has never had to deal with any of the negative consequences of the EU like the British population have so their perspective on this is undoubtedly different. The same can be said for the Chinese, the South Koreans and others.

I never argued that any foreign government was anti-EU, although it could be said of the Trump administration. What I said is that they are unlikely to care about whether or not the EU is a positive thing. They will only ever be considering their own domestic and corporate financial interests.

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 12:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12502510)
It's because there is no other trade bloc like the EU. The single internal market is easily the most sophisticated international trade mechanism ever devised. You simply cannot compare the EU internal market to anything else in the world.

The CBI reckons it benefits the UK economy by around £70bn per year as opposed to the approx £9bn (net) we pay for membership.

I doubt we will lose all of the benefits of the internal market when we leave despite the best efforts of the hard Brexiteers, but that's what is at risk by leaving it.

Or because the EU was the only bloc that was misguided enough to assume that total FoM would be a good idea. Even Australia and New Zealand and the US and Canada opted for bilateral visa systems rather than total FoM and those are smaller trade pacts made up of far wealthier, more civilised, prosperous and stable nations than today's EU.

If FoM wasn't considered a terrible enough idea back in the 1980's then it absolutely should have been repealed or overhauled ahead of Eastern European accession.

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 12:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12502500)
You despise the Greens, you say. Why?

What's wrong with reducing our dependency on fossil fuels and replacing them with renewable energy? And the mud hut thing isn't a Green policy, just something those who don't understand what we're trying to achieve use to belittle us.

If that's their only policy, and it's a policy with which I agree to some extent, then they should just stick to that rather than Caroline Lucas constantly running her mouth and chiming in on topics that don't concern her party such as the foreign aid budget, EU membership and immigration policy.

EMR May 20th 2018 12:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502513)
OK so you accuse the US of protectionism and that's fair enough but what about EU protectionism? That is absolutely a thing and to ignore its existence would be extremely hypocritical.

Additionally, the Japanese will always go wherever they think meets their own economic interest. They always have and always will. EU membership probably did play a part in the decision of some Japanese corporations to base their EMEA operations out of Britain but then again Japan has never had to deal with any of the negative consequences of the EU like the British population have so their perspective on this is undoubtedly different. The same can be said for the Chinese, the South Koreans and others.

I never argued that any foreign government was anti-EU, although it could be said of the Trump administration. What I said is that they are unlikely to care about whether or not the EU is a positive thing. They will only ever be considering their own domestic and corporate financial interests.

The tens thousand of UK employed who benefit from Japanese , Koreaninvestment in thecU k because it give their companies access to the EU can hardly be seen to be suffering from what you believe are the negative aspects of Membership.
Why do you think the UK government will go to any extent to keep those companies in the UK.

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 12:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12502517)
The tens thousand of UK employed who benefit from Japanese , Koreaninvestment in thecU k because it give their companies access to the EU can hardly be seen to be suffering from what you believe are the negative aspects of Membership.
Why do you think the UK government will go to any extent to keep those companies in the UK.

How many times do I need to tell you? I'm quite sure that I know more about Japanese culture than you do and I'm telling you now, they would quite happily pull out in a heartbeat as soon as Britain no longer met their financial or business objectives, EU membership or not.

In fact I read an article in a free newspaper for Japanese expats that they hand out in London Mitsukoshi. It stated that several Japanese finance firms were considering doing just that because the UK was making it harder for their execs to obtain ILR or sponsor dependents and that was a year or so before the referendum.

Nintendo actually did just that a couple of decades ago. They moved their Europe base to Frankfurt because Germany offered them a sweeter package. Japanese corporations couldn't give a toss for your financial stability so I don't see why we should have to care so much about theirs.

Red Eric May 20th 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502468)
Well, to be fair, the rabid pro-EU stance taken by the likes of the Greens, the SNP and the Liberal Democrats really doesn't help.


Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12502476)
...rabidly pro-EU is hardly how I'd describe, for example, The Greens. They're certainly not uncritical on matters when the occasion arises.


Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502483)
I'm sure they're not but I despise the Greens at the best of times ...

** gently wipes tears away from streaming eyes **

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 12:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12502520)
** gently wipes tears away from streaming eyes **


The majority view of Greens is that its benefits far outweigh the problems.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...m-green-brexit

It is possible to be slightly critical of something yet still blindly support it regardless of its many, many flaws.

EMR May 20th 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502518)
How many times do I need to tell you? I'm quite sure that I know more about Japanese culture than you do and I'm telling you now, they would quite happily pull out in a heartbeat as soon as Britain no longer met their financial or business objectives, EU membership or not.

In fact I read an article in a free newspaper for Japanese expats that they hand out in London Mitsukoshi. It stated that several Japanese finance firms were considering doing just that because the UK was making it harder for their execs to obtain ILR or sponsor dependents and that was a year or so before the referendum.

Nintendo actually did just that a couple of decades ago. They moved their Europe base to Frankfurt because Germany offered them a sweeter package. Japanese corporations couldn't give a toss for your financial stability so I don't see why we should have to care so much about theirs.


I agree their presence in the u K us because it offers EU access and UK inducements.
You are confirming that if brexit dies not suit them they could pull out damaging the UK economy and putting tens thousands out of work.

It will be you and all other brexiters who are responsible but of course you will find someone else to blame.

Assanah May 20th 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502468)
Well, to be fair, the rabid pro-EU stance taken by the likes of the Greens, the SNP and the Liberal Democrats really doesn't help.

IMHO though, any organisation that pushes the ridiculous open immigration policies that the EU enforces must be, by definition, leftist.

Interestingly enough, this argument would be considered leftist in Germany. In fact , the replacement of the former Eastern German communist party reasons exactly like you: immigration is bad for the poor. They cant cope, they can't defend themselves and need to be protected by generous heroes like yourself and the rafical keft 😂

Assanah May 20th 2018 12:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Somehow the editing function of this forum doesn't work on my phone. Sorry for the typos.

Red Eric May 20th 2018 1:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12502521)
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...m-green-brexit

The majority view of Greens is that its benefits far outweigh the problems
It is possible to be slightly critical of something yet still blindly support it regardless of its many, many flaws.

And yet, just a couple of sentences on :

...let me start by noting that I agree with the Green party’s assessment that the EU is in need of wholesale reform
Blindly supporting? Come on DG - every one of your posts is infused with this sort of ridiculous rhetoric which is completely at odds with the facts. I presume it just bubbles out of every pore by now as a result of what you've been feasting your eyes on. Widen your sources a bit ;)

Red Eric May 20th 2018 1:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12502529)
Somehow the editing function of this forum doesn't work on my phone. Sorry for the typos.

No probs - I quite liked "rafical keft" :lol:

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12502533)
Widen your sources a bit ;)

That was me widening my sources. I had to include a link to that commie Corbynite leftist rag through gritted teeth. :lol:

DigitalGhost May 20th 2018 1:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12502524)
I agree their presence in the u K us because it offers EU access and UK inducements.
You are confirming that if brexit dies not suit them they could pull out damaging the UK economy and putting tens thousands out of work.

It will be you and all other brexiters who are responsible but of course you will find someone else to blame.

You're missing the point. They would happily pull out of the UK as soon as it no longer met their financial objectives. That's with or without the EU and there have been examples of Asian corporations doing that in the past.

Remaining in the EU would not promise the continuation of their investment.


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