British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric May 14th 2018 6:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12499309)
Different countries have different cultures - it's not "racist" to point this out. Do you think the German culture is the same as The Congo? Or the Brazilian culture the same as Japan?

IMO the southern Europeans have a better work:life balance and the culture is just fine, but it is also different than the northern European one.

Shouting "racist" or "twat" every time you don't understand an opinion further shows your lack of intellect.

I don't accuse anybody who hasn't made racist comments of racism and there's absolutely no misunderstanding here.

Here's your post :

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12499109)
The German's, whilst benefiting greatly from the weakened euro will eventually get sick of propping up the south and east and will get past their guilt complex and want to subsidise them less. The Greeks, Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese etc aren't suddenly going to jump up and start becoming northern European in their work culture, they'll still be chilled-out and laid-back with a manana culture.

Now tell me that doesn't read as the industrious northern Europeans are carrying the lazy southerners.

This at the same time as you have the EU flooding the UK with unskilled labour which is prepared to sleep 19 to a room on a rota basis and work any amount of hours for shit pay.

Mañana culture my arse. There are southern Europeans all over the world doing all sorts of jobs and very welcome indeed thay are for their industriousness amongst other things.

la mancha May 14th 2018 6:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12499357)
I really don't understand your distinction about outsourcing ...... at the end of the day the company concerned bear the responsibility, but it seems they're clean because it's the nasty EU doing all the bad stuff..... As for the migrants, I don't think their intention is to do anything "to the detriment of a British worker", but to improve their lot ...... and as a migrant myself, I fully understand that - something you patently know absolutely nothing about. The poor British worker would be better served by a government that actually looks to protect their rights and use existing legislation to prevent abuse of zero-hours contracts and massive outsourcing, rather than pretending that they now support a policy that most of them voted against and which they have no idea how to implement.

As for your feigned upset at being called out, well I speak as I find..... and no amount of ad-hom will stop me.

Once again you are talking about something I am not. I am not talking about outsourcing. I am talking about how the EU is responsible for FOM which is responsible for the huge number of eastern European agency workers easing into work here to the detriment of British unskilled jobseekers. It is EU legislation, not the companies involved that has created the system unskilled British jobseekers have to endure.

I am not talking about the poor British worker. I am talking about unskilled British jobseekers. You are all over the place here. You go on about the government looking after the poor British worker. Again, this is about unskilled British jobseekers being denied work in favour of eastern European migrant workers, not to do with government legislation and zero hours contracts.

I have no feigned upset and it will take more than your pettiness to make me upset anyway. I am only wondering why, when you run out of rational debate on unskilled British jobseekers, you turn to pettiness and childishness by calling me a troll and implying I am not telling the truth. I do not want to stop you because it makes me feel good to see you Remainers revert to these tactics when you get stuck for an answer. Me? Upset by you? Give me a break.

I ask you yet again, in what way will staying in the EU improve the conditions for unskilled British jobseekers?

No need to call me a troll or a liar; just answer if you can.

Assanah May 14th 2018 6:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12499138)
Are you sure about that? I'm not so certain. Only last week, people were protesting in Munich about a change in the law which many are attributing to Germany's recent influx of refugees. How are they going to react if their numbers of unskilled European migrants start to exponentially increase and with it comes the inevitable increases in homelessness and petty crime etc?

Biggest Munich protest ′in years′ against hard-line CSU police bill News DW 10.05.2018


well, Germany has already a massive immigration from other EU countries. Germany had a far higher number of European immigrants than your little island. Nobody whines and whines like the British do. Luxembourg has an infintely higher number of immigrants than the uk. Nobody whines and whinges like the British do. In fact there are quiet a few eu countries that have a significantly higher share of foreign born inhabitants than the UK does.

And homeless eastern europeans are already a big problem in Germany. What do germans do? Germans cooperate with the eastern European countries. Eastern European countries send social workers for example. There are other ways to deal with these problems than exit.

Assanah May 14th 2018 6:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12499164)
Bavaria is part of federal Germany, no? That's like saying the US shouldn't be held to account for things that Texas and Arkansas do.

Germany as a whole still has massive problems with racism. I don't think even the most hardened Europhile could deny that. The last time I was in Berlin, I saw the words "Deutschland is ficken weis" spray painted in massive letters on a city centre wall and they still have to patrol Saschenhausen 24/7 in case yet another Neo-nazi group tries to burn it down.

Deutschland is chicken Weiss? What freaking language is that. Sounds like something a racist Brit would make up.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 6:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12499233)
Careful now, you might blow a gasket with all that bile. The UK government has set a minimum wage, so how is it that a UK worker earning this is OK, but a migrant is some sub-class who must inhabit slums and work for peanuts? The specific form of outsourcing I mentioned was NOT outsourcing the work to a low-wage economy, but to an international company that then uses the UK's system to temporarily import workers (whilst taking a nice cut). In this situation, the UK's wage legislation has no role, because the workers are paid elsewhere..... so they can be paid less than minimum wage and that's all OK, is it? How is it not better that the workers themselves have the protection of the law?.... except that it destroys your argument.

It's interesting that you have changed your tack from the EU allowing thousands of welfare seekers into the UK, to the EU throwing UK workers onto the scrapheap by sending workers to fill jobs in British industry. So, do you now accept that the former is not true? (and never was...) As has been said, other EU states use existing legislation to prevent the "ills" you claim beset the UK, so why should leaving the EU make anything better?

We know where the falsehoods lay......

I have never had a tack of the EU throwing welfare seekers into the UK - just another one of your lies.

The reason so many workers are at or around minimum wage is because their is a surplus of labour - due to persistent high net immigration.

Other EU states don't have the same persistent high net immigration of workers pushing up the population that we do.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 6:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12499236)
There is and always has been a racist fringe in the UK, a minority which Brexit has given not just a vehicle but also a shield to hide behind.
The front pages of the brexit popular press gave them motivation and a sense of respectability.
Farages poster, the claim that millions of Turks, thousands of Syrians were coming to the UK and only Brexit could stop them..

There will be a racist fringe in every country - the UK's being one of the smaller ones internationally.

Assanah May 14th 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12499383)
Deutschland is chicken Weiss? What freaking language is that. Sounds like something a racist Brit would make up.

Lol, sorry auto correction but same shitty results.

EMR May 14th 2018 7:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12499384)
I have never had a tack of the EU throwing welfare seekers into the UK - just another one of your lies.

The reason so many workers are at or around minimum wage is because their is a surplus of labour - due to persistent high net immigration.

Other EU states don't have the same persistent high net immigration of workers pushing up the population that we do.


If there is a surplus of labour please expllainn why not only has UK unemployment fallen by 2 million but according to you a d thosscwho think like you , we have an equal number of EU and other migrants also working in the UK.
Doesn,t surplus mean that the supply exceeds the demand ?
.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12499252)
You really can't help yourself, can you? Stop with the racist generalizations!
The Italians have a manana culture? I think not, Italy may not be ahead of the UK, but it is certainly not an economic or industrial basket-case.
The Spanish are clawing their way back from a recession - yet there aren't many Spaniards knocking down the doors of the UK for work.
The Greeks have an issue with taxation and poor governance, but again, where are the thousands of Greeks coming to the UK?
... and finally, the Portuguese, Britain's oldest ally, emerged from a fascist dictatorship 40 years ago to find that all the money disappeared and international companies bailed out. Britain, of course, did absolutely nothing itself against the dictatorship or the subsequent crisis, but the EU has used it's budget (including the UKs contribution) to support the economy. To dispel your ignorance, Portugal is not on the Mediterranean and they do not speak Spanish.
He who generalizes, generally lies.

I've already explained that mentioning that countries have different cultures is not "racist" - do grow up.

Did I say Portugal was on the Med or spoke Spanish?

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 7:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12499317)
yes, well, I never argued that point.

Tell me, with the UK booming and so superior in so.many ways, what exactly does it fear of the EU? Seems like things are pretty top shelf up there in the sunlit uplands.

By the way, you ought to take a peek across the channel. Maybe even visit sometime. As it turns out, it's not quite the impoverished, unsophisticated inferior place you want to believe it is. Really. Don't take my word for it. See for yourself.

Yes you did.

I have not suggested the UK is superior and booming in so many ways - they are your words.

I am on the continent at the moment.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 7:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12499368)
I don't accuse anybody who hasn't made racist comments of racism and there's absolutely no misunderstanding here.

Here's your post :

Now tell me that doesn't read as the industrious northern Europeans are carrying the lazy southerners.

This at the same time as you have the EU flooding the UK with unskilled labour which is prepared to sleep 19 to a room on a rota basis and work any amount of hours for shit pay.

Mañana culture my arse. There are southern Europeans all over the world doing all sorts of jobs and very welcome indeed thay are for their industriousness amongst other things.

Those are your words, not mine. You might want to look at the dark corners of your own mind.

I was very clear, I think the southern work:life balance is likely a better way to live a life, but don't try and pretend all cultures are exactly the same, you'll just embarrass yourself further.

FYI, people like you disgust me - your the type that throws out disgusting accusations on no basis at all, saying people are racist/xenophobic/sexist/homophobic etc because you don't have an adequate argument and instead you petulantly throw out these terms to make yourself feel better. I would ban you from these sorts of boards, you're a disgrace.

macliam May 14th 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12499374)
Once again you are talking about something I am not. I am not talking about outsourcing. I am talking about how the EU is responsible for FOM which is responsible for the huge number of eastern European agency workers easing into work here to the detriment of British unskilled jobseekers. It is EU legislation, not the companies involved that has created the system unskilled British jobseekers have to endure.

I am not talking about the poor British worker. I am talking about unskilled British jobseekers. You are all over the place here. You go on about the government looking after the poor British worker. Again, this is about unskilled British jobseekers being denied work in favour of eastern European migrant workers, not to do with government legislation and zero hours contracts.

I have no feigned upset and it will take more than your pettiness to make me upset anyway. I am only wondering why, when you run out of rational debate on unskilled British jobseekers, you turn to pettiness and childishness by calling me a troll and implying I am not telling the truth. I do not want to stop you because it makes me feel good to see you Remainers revert to these tactics when you get stuck for an answer. Me? Upset by you? Give me a break.

I ask you yet again, in what way will staying in the EU improve the conditions for unskilled British jobseekers?

No need to call me a troll or a liar; just answer if you can.

You seem determined to continue claiming that FoM is responsible for this racket and ignore or reject that anyone else is at fault. You also seem unable or unwilling to understand that outsourcing means an employer handing over recruitment to someone else, whether another company or an agency, but that the choice is ultimately that of the employer. How strange that FoM seems to impact the UK far more than anywhere else in the EU. Perhaps you can explain how leaving the EU will help the unskilled jobseeker........ are you suggesting there will be full employment after Brexit?

Your premise is incorrect, so arguing against it is fruitless. Where a system is being abused, then you tackle the abuse, you don't scrap the entire system. But when you want to scrap a system, any excuse will do.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 7:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12499379)
well, Germany has already a massive immigration from other EU countries. Germany had a far higher number of European immigrants than your little island. Nobody whines and whines like the British do. Luxembourg has an infintely higher number of immigrants than the uk. Nobody whines and whinges like the British do. In fact there are quiet a few eu countries that have a significantly higher share of foreign born inhabitants than the UK does.

And homeless eastern europeans are already a big problem in Germany. What do germans do? Germans cooperate with the eastern European countries. Eastern European countries send social workers for example. There are other ways to deal with these problems than exit.

And as we've pointed out a million times, over the past 20 years Germany's population has gone from 80M to ....... 80M.

During the same time the UK's has gone from 57M to 64M - a 7 million person increase, primarily driven by high net immigration.

Cape Blue May 14th 2018 7:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12499389)
If there is a surplus of labour please expllainn why not only has UK unemployment fallen by 2 million but according to you a d thosscwho think like you , we have an equal number of EU and other migrants also working in the UK.
Doesn,t surplus mean that the supply exceeds the demand ?
.

I've explained the lump of labour fallacy and the impacts of supply & demand on suppressing wages and investment in automation to you a thousand times, no need to do it again.

EMR May 14th 2018 7:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12499405)
I've explained the lump of labour fallacy and the impacts of supply & demand on suppressing wages and investment in automation to you a thousand times, no need to do it again.

Clearly you need to go back to economics year 1.
Only an idiot would think that companies would employ more , increase costs and overheads, reduce profits etc just because there is Labour available,.
Are you an idiot.


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