Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Mar 27th 2018, 9:23 pm
  #31876  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Yes, I did notice that and assumed they meant your translation

The paragraph I do not understand at all :

Lower migration would very likely lead to lower growth in total employment, and lower output growth. It would not necessarily mean lower growth in output per head which is more closely connected to living standards. There is little evidence that, over long periods of time, countries that have had higher rates of labour force growth have had higher rates of growth of output per head. However, there is no doubt that some types of migration can raise productivity and output growth may be desirable if the extra output improves the government finances: our final report will discuss the fiscal impacts of EEA migration.


Can anybody put this in plain English ? Thanks (I do like to understand what I read).
It means we shouldn't import more people en masse.

It is saying that the GDP growth is directly related to the number of people, not that those people have any real extra value-add.

Adding five million more people to the UK will not make the existing population any wealthier - GDP per head will stay the same. What is will do is continue to make housing more expensive and the infrastructure in the UK more stretched.

At the end it points to a low-volume skills-based immigration policy.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2018, 9:33 pm
  #31877  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
That migrants are more compliant and desperate I am not surprised. That you continually side with big business over your working compatriots I am.

As I have explained before, importing migrants to work low-paid jobs that attract in-work bennies is not an economically sound practice for the UK, even if it helps your friends in the elite get richer.

Higher wages through reducing the reserve pool of labour will incentivise workers from the unemployed, under employed and not economically active to take work, or it will incentivise automation and increased productivity for the UK.
What is scary is that you actually believe this.
The fields and Amazon distribution centres of the UK will have queues of Brits who have suddenly realised what they have been missing , eager to replace EU workers who you think will no longer be coming to the UK.
EMR is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2018, 9:44 pm
  #31878  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,045
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
The paragraph I do not understand at all :

Lower migration would very likely lead to lower growth in total employment, and lower output growth. It would not necessarily mean lower growth in output per head which is more closely connected to living standards. There is little evidence that, over long periods of time, countries that have had higher rates of labour force growth have had higher rates of growth of output per head. However, there is no doubt that some types of migration can raise productivity and output growth may be desirable if the extra output improves the government finances: our final report will discuss the fiscal impacts of EEA migration.


Can anybody put this in plain English ? Thanks (I do like to understand what I read).
It means we shouldn't import more people en masse.

It is saying that the GDP growth is directly related to the number of people, not that those people have any real extra value-add.

Adding five million more people to the UK will not make the existing population any wealthier - GDP per head will stay the same. What is will do is continue to make housing more expensive and the infrastructure in the UK more stretched.

At the end it points to a low-volume skills-based immigration policy.
It doesn't actually say some of that though, does it?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2018, 9:46 pm
  #31879  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It doesn't actually say some of that though, does it?
Feel free to point out the errors.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2018, 9:48 pm
  #31880  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
What is scary is that you actually believe this.
The fields and Amazon distribution centres of the UK will have queues of Brits who have suddenly realised what they have been missing , eager to replace EU workers who you think will no longer be coming to the UK.
1,500,000 unemployed
9,000,000 under-employed/part-time
9,000,000 not economically active.

Once wages go up from a pittance to something sensible, some of those will be incentivised to work/work more.

Your desire for a never-ending ponzi-scheme of mass migration is unsustainable.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 6:48 am
  #31881  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,004
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
1,500,000 unemployed
9,000,000 under-employed/part-time
9,000,000 not economically active.
9 million underemployed include students and other part-time workers. Most of them can't, or don't want more hours. These can also include everyone on zero-hour contracts.

Here's the thing though (which I mentioned the last time this particular dead horse was flogged), if you have 9 mil underemployed, where do the extra hours come from? Those in full time work, or other underemployed?

Once wages go up from a pittance to something sensible, some of those will be incentivised to work/work more.

Your desire for a never-ending ponzi-scheme of mass migration is unsustainable.
Here we go with the 'incentivised' stuff again. Work will set you free.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:20 am
  #31882  
Preparing to move again
 
Annetje's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Charente Maritime
Posts: 5,456
Annetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
It means we shouldn't import more people en masse.

It is saying that the GDP growth is directly related to the number of people, not that those people have any real extra value-add.

Adding five million more people to the UK will not make the existing population any wealthier - GDP per head will stay the same. What is will do is continue to make housing more expensive and the infrastructure in the UK more stretched.

At the end it points to a low-volume skills-based immigration policy.
Why do I have this feeling you twisted the translation a bit to suit your view ... It was a genuine question, but never mind.
Annetje is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:42 am
  #31883  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
1,500,000 unemployed
9,000,000 under-employed/part-time
9,000,000 not economically active.

Once wages go up from a pittance to something sensible, some of those will be incentivised to work/work more.

Your desire for a never-ending ponzi-scheme of mass migration is unsustainable.
Usual brexit response to having their views challenged.
When did you become the saviour of the lower paid, the lower orders.
Your past post reflect your distain for them.
You are not pro the lower paid just anti migrant.
Don,t try and pretend that you are anything else.
EMR is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:43 am
  #31884  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
9 million underemployed include students and other part-time workers. Most of them can't, or don't want more hours. These can also include everyone on zero-hour contracts.

Here's the thing though (which I mentioned the last time this particular dead horse was flogged), if you have 9 mil underemployed, where do the extra hours come from? Those in full time work, or other underemployed?
The extra hours come from the reduced migration. EMR seems to think we need to import a third of a million people a year to work in the UK just to keep-up, if we didn't do that those hours they would have worked are available to the various groups of non-working or underworking residents.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:44 am
  #31885  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Why do I have this feeling you twisted the translation a bit to suit your view ... It was a genuine question, but never mind.
It was a genuine translation - whilst Eric likes to poke, he has yet to show where I am in error.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:46 am
  #31886  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Usual brexit response to having their views challenged.
When did you become the saviour of the lower paid, the lower orders.
Your past post reflect your distain for them.
You are not pro the lower paid just anti migrant.
Don,t try and pretend that you are anything else.
When you say "Usual brexit response to having their views challenged." - you mean providing you facts and data to support my point?
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 7:55 am
  #31887  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,004
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The extra hours come from the reduced migration. EMR seems to think we need to import a third of a million people a year to work in the UK just to keep-up, if we didn't do that those hours they would have worked are available to the various groups of non-working or underworking residents.
What about my first paragraph, about most of the underemployed not needing or wanting more hours.

What incentivisation would you give them?

And will the jobs it appears migrants will be leaving (agriculture and hospitality) be available around the availability of these people.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 8:09 am
  #31888  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
What about my first paragraph, about most of the underemployed not needing or wanting more hours.

What incentivisation would you give them?

And will the jobs it appears migrants will be leaving (agriculture and hospitality) be available around the availability of these people.
I read the Guardian, frequently I hear about the desperate plight of those on zero hours contracts and their lack of hours etc, I'm sure they will be happy.

The incentivisation (careful, you'll be Godwining yourself next) is that the wages will be more. Perhaps the bennies will commensurately be less so that there is a stick as well as a carrot.

As I have explained before, some employers will be incentivised to invest in automation so they will not require more hours, others in product substitution to less labour intensive products and crops - both of these a boon to UK productivity.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 8:16 am
  #31889  
Reasonable Bitch
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 18,139
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Yep, it'll be an industrial powerhouse. And because of the famous british productivity, it will only require a couple of years, rather than generations to become so.

You might want to tell Whitehall that, since about the only viable economic strategy they've put forth so far is to slash tax rates and deregulate everything (a tax haven... something I've always said is probably Brexit Britain's best shot).

That of course, will mean cuts across the board. But when Trump "saves" the UK and privatises the NHS, then there's a big chunk off the table right there. So, no worries.
amideislas is offline  
Old Mar 28th 2018, 8:18 am
  #31890  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Yep, it'll be an industrial powerhouse. And because of the famous british productivity, it will only require a couple of years, rather than generations to become so.

You might want to tell Whitehall that, since about the only viable economic strategy they've put forth so far is to slash tax rates and deregulate everything (a tax haven... something I've always said is probably Brexit Britain's best shot).

That of course, will mean cuts across the board. But when Trump "saves" the UK and privatises the NHS, then there's a big chunk off the table right there. So, no worries.
I think you might want to lay off the gin this early in the morning.
Cape Blue is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.