British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DaveLovesDee Mar 25th 2018 2:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469560)
You honestly think that an hour, two hours, a day, a weeks training on how to remove a fruit from a stem is a skilled job comparable to that of a professional footballer?

Both require little training, and don't require qualifications, only experience. The more they do their respective takes, the more they gain experience.


Fruit picking is the very definition of unskilled labour - it requires zero qualifications and any able bodied person could do it with half an hours worth of direction. Sure, they could not do it as quickly as others who have been doing it for a while, but the speed increases quickly.
So is football. You or I could hit a ball to another player given enough training, and practice would allow us to do it faster and more accurately. I would categorise both as low-skilled as opposed to unskilled.


If you think picking fruit and veg is skilled work, what is your definition of unskilled work - just lying on a sofa?
Though the DWP classes farm labourers as unskiled, their job seems to fall under the definition of semi-skilled;


Semi-Skilled Work
Semi-skilled work requires paying attention to detail or protecting against risks but it doesn’t include complex job duties. Semi-skilled work doesn't require you to have advanced training or education and typically takes between three and six months to fully learn a semi-skilled job.

Some semi-skilled jobs require monitoring, quality checking, or doing repetitive tasks

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469573)
I was just waiting for one of you to come out of the woodwork with that - I had put my money on Eric or Lion, but congratulations, you must be very proud.

If you were deliberately waiting for someone to correct your error, why make the error in the first place, unless you were trolling for a reaction?

amideislas Mar 25th 2018 2:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469571)

Economists making forecasts are people making a guess - there are far too many variables and they fall back on their own prejudices.

Meteorologists (you know, people who study meteorology?) also make predictions... or "guesses" if you prefer that term. And they're not always right, but most of the time, they are.

I mean, last week, they predicted rain "for the weekend" (which could mean anything, really). Yet I suspect they just "wanted" it to rain, just to "prove" they're right (prejudiced).

OK, in fairness, yes, it's been raining since Saturday morning. But I reckon even a broken clock is right twice a day. Which is why everyone should doubt any "experts" who "guess". They haven't a clue, as this proves.

DaveLovesDee Mar 25th 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12469575)
Actually that sounds more like Cape Blue except the "not me mate" is replaced with something a bit more withering.

Haters gonna hate? :p :rofl:

scrubbedexpat0105 Mar 25th 2018 2:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469571)
Economists making forecasts are people making a guess - there are far too many variables and they fall back on their own prejudices.

The great number of variables is precisely my point, and I'm also quite willing to admit that I'm also making a guess.

I think it's fair to assert that some businesses raising wages (either because of a rise in the minimum wage, or because of EU migrants no longer being available to take up the jobs) will result in more British workers being employed.

Equally, I think it's fair to assert that some businesses being forced to raise wages (for whichever of the two reasons) will cause these jobs to be lost, for the reasons I stated.

What none of us knows is how great the impact will be in one direction or another.

An intelligent debate must at least acknowledge that these factors are there. It's a very big equation with a large number of variables that we're talking about.

EMR Mar 25th 2018 3:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12469543)
I don’t want to get into this argument about wages and EU migrant workers because it is a spent debate and it has been going on for a couple of years on BE: we are leaving the EU and that is that. Efforts should be put into having a better life after Brexit instead of arguing over something that means nothing now.

I will answer one of your points, though. When you say ‘if you think paying unskilled workers in the UK substantially more (and I, for one, am all for it) will neatly eliminate the "surplus pool of foreign labour" without causing massive collateral damage to the economy’, you have it all wrong. Eliminating the surplus pool of foreign labour will pay UK workers substantially more. It is already happening. I will not post links because I have already done so many times in the past.

Wages not yet keeping pace with inflation
On what planet do you live where UK workers are getting substantially more.
Yet another Brexiter who cannot deal with facts.
Post your links , amaze us.

007Steve Mar 25th 2018 3:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12469609)
Wages not yet keeping pace with inflation
On what planet do you live where UK workers are getting substantially more.
Yet another Brexiter who cannot deal with facts.
Post your links , amaze us.

:blink: ... Oh, now don't tease EMR, he can't face the UK's failed status, let alone the future... :nod:

Cape Blue Mar 25th 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12469583)
Though the DWP classes farm labourers as unskiled,

If you were deliberately waiting for someone to correct your error, why make the error in the first place, unless you were trolling for a reaction?

It wasn't my error.

DaveLovesDee Mar 25th 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469070)
Brits don't do the jobs because the low pay does not pay enough for a decent living or they are living the life of Riley on bennies or doubtless many other reasons. Many of these jobs are of no value to the UK and do not add anything to society, in fact they subtract from society via the payment of in-work bennies.

Let's try an experiment then.

Google the benefit calculator (I think the Citizens Advice Bureau has one), and find the benefits amount you'd qualify under your circumstances. I don't need to know what you'd be entitled to, only by how much above or below your current income you'd be better or worse off.


Min wage is enough to survive, but not to have a comfortable life.
It depends where one lives, how many hours they work and how many family members they have.


The employee sets the wage by accepting the job.
No, the employee accepts the rate set by the employer.

la mancha Mar 25th 2018 5:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12469573)
I was just waiting for one of you to come out of the woodwork with that - I had put my money on Eric or Lion, but congratulations, you must be very proud.

Sometimes I am 50/50 and cannot be bothered to correct a post. Never mind: another point to the grammar experts. (How many typos etc. do you see and not comment on: as many as I do? Isn’t worth the time but others on here think it is.)

la mancha Mar 25th 2018 5:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12469611)
:blink: ... Oh, now don't tease EMR, he can't face the UK's failed status, let alone the future... :nod:

The UK’s failed status? Another Brit hater. I have never met or spoken to people (?) like you posters before. Just what sort of a brain must you have to keep on relentlessly talking down the UK?

EMR Mar 25th 2018 5:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12469663)
Sometimes I am 50/50 and cannot be bothered to correct a post. Never mind: another point to the grammar experts. (How many typos etc. do you see and not comment on: as many as I do? Isn’t worth the time but others on here think it is.)

For a minute I thought you were going to post links proving that the national statistics on wage rises were wrong and that your view that they have risen substantially is correct.
But then you are a brexiter and find facts and statistics confusing.

amideislas Mar 25th 2018 5:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12469666)
The UK’s failed status? Another Brit hater. I have never met or spoken to people (?) like you posters before. Just what sort of a brain must you have to keep on relentlessly talking down the UK?

Yeah, OK... Everything's great in blighty. Sucks everywhere else, though.

That what you want to hear?

Fredbargate Mar 25th 2018 5:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12468960)
Why ?

Because most employers understand supply and demand.

DaveLovesDee Mar 25th 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
SALARY FACTORS: HERE’S HOW YOUR EMPLOYER DECIDES HOW MUCH YOU GET PAID

Set the right pay rates

What Determines Pay / Wages?

007Steve Mar 25th 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12469666)
The UK’s failed status? Another Brit hater. I have never met or spoken to people (?) like you posters before. Just what sort of a brain must you have to keep on relentlessly talking down the UK?

1. It's a failed state (& that's being kind) without any contribution to offer imo;- get over it as it falls further behind & attracts more scorn.
2. This is an expats forum; you're in the UK, why should anybody treat your warped views seriously- they belong in a museum.
3. Try the DM Xenophobes Club, you'll like it.


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