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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Annetje Mar 24th 2018 10:14 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12468950)
Cape's repeated claims the employee sets the pay rate when accepting the job doesn't hold up. The employer sets the rate, which the employee chooses to accept or decline.

:nod::nod::nod:

Exactly !!!!!

I have the impression a lot of what he claims doesn't hold up.
When asked to explain he just repeats the claim ..... Life in a bubble ....

Fredbargate Mar 24th 2018 10:25 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I wonder how many employers we have on this thread?

Annetje Mar 24th 2018 10:41 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12468955)
I wonder how many employers we have on this thread?

Why ?

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:24 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12468812)
What no one with any sense and logic understands is Your constant references to imported millions, reserve pool blah blah.
It deserves nothing more than to sit along side the similar UKIP claims ,Express and Mail headlines.
If you are happy to keep company with them then that's your decision.

I said we expanded the reserve pool of labour to tens of millions.

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:25 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12468924)
Very :goodpost: EMR.
All he wants to do is keep posting the same economic & social kant in support of his warped views, in the hope that he's seen as some kind of 'moderate' while others are just fools or ignorant. I doubt he's ever held any sort of responsible job - whatever he claims; - people just wouldn't be prepared to work with him.

More ad-hominem.

Haters gonna hate

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12468939)
BS !!!!!

How do they bring down the minimum wage ???

They don't.

They suppress wages full-stop.

A job that was £15/hr ten years ago would have inflated up to £19/hr today, but as the supply of workers who are prepared to do that job has massively increased, both by persistent high net immigration and the expanding of the reserve pool of labour, that job can still be filled at £15/hr or cheaper.

The increase in labour supply has suppressed the wages. This is especially so when the labour concerned is more prepared to underhouse themselves etc than the domestic worker and can more readily afford to work for less.

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:37 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12468949)
He is living in his own little bubble, believing whatever suits him.
I have been asking this question for a while and never get an answer.

I do believe that less employees will push wages up (with the risk of companies having to close down) but having a choice of employees does NOT bring down the minimum wage.
IT CAN'T ...

I also asked why Brits don't do these jobs and there NO ANSWER yet again.

It's time our so called ''Remainer'' explains his thinking (or lack of).
Very well to sit on a high horse looking down at people, but a bit of logical normal conversation every now and then would be nice.

Less employees available pushes wages up, more employees available pushes wages down. It's good that you have at least grasped that supply & demand facet.

You have a fixation on the minimum wage, this is merely a floor wage that cannot legally be dropped below, but you are ignoring the fact that a job that paid £8/hr 5 years ago is still paying £8/hr now due to the increase in labour supply.

The wage has been suppressed from the natural inflation up to around £9/hr because the increase in willing labour has meant the employer does not need to increase their pay and can, in fact, reduce it to £7.50/hr.

This is aided by the acceptance of poorer migrants that it might be a short-term few years of saving and improving their English etc so they are prepared to underhouse themselves and live 10 to a 4-bed house, whereas the domestic worker might actually desire to have their own bedroom. This is why Brits often will not do these jobs - the pay is too little to have a normal life one would desire in ones own country.

I have never said it brings down the minimum wage, I have said it suppresses wages.

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:40 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12468950)
Cape's repeated claims the employee sets the pay rate when accepting the job doesn't hold up. The employer sets the rate, which the employee chooses to accept or decline.

You are wrong.

The employer sets the rate they want to pay.

The employee sets the rate that IS paid by taking the role.

I can set a rate of £7.50 an hour for a qualified engineer in London, but I will not get any takers.

I would have to keep increasing the rate upwards until I hit a point where a potential employee is interested - they have set the rate at which the job is agreed.

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:42 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12468955)
I wonder how many employers we have on this thread?

In my previous role in the US I had slightly over 2,000 employees under me.

In my recent role in EMEA it was a larger business but more mechanised, so it was only 850 across all the countries.

I first became Managing Director of a smaller business with 12 staff over 20 years ago.

EMR Mar 24th 2018 11:49 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12468980)
In my previous role in the US I had slightly over 2,000 employees under me.

In my recent role in EMEA it was a larger business but more mechanised, so it was only 850 across all the countries.

I first became Managing Director of a smaller business with 12 staff over 20 years ago.

So you set the wages.
How many times did you say to a prospective employee , ignore the advertised salary I am going to pay you more.

EMR Mar 24th 2018 11:52 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12468978)
You are wrong.

The employer sets the rate they want to pay.

The employee sets the rate that IS paid by taking the role.

I can set a rate of £7.50 an hour for a qualified engineer in London, but I will not get any takers.

I would have to keep increasing the rate upwards until I hit a point where a potential employee is interested - they have set the rate at which the job is agreed.

The employee who needs a job sets the wage not the employer taking advantage of the employee with a family,food to buy , mortgage, rent to pay
What a strange mind you have.
Please explain why we have an enforced minimum wage if employees were more than happy to work for less , in you odd view of the Labour market.
Why do we have any laws that protect the rights of the employee.

Cape Blue Mar 24th 2018 11:53 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12468989)
So you set the wages.
How many times did you say to a prospective employee , ignore the advertised salary I am going to pay you more.

I set the wage I wanted to pay, the employee set the wage the job was actually filled at by accepting the role.

Some potential senior employees would negotiate for more starting salary, on occasion they would get it.

EMR Mar 24th 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12468997)
I set the wage I wanted to pay, the employee set the wage the job was actually filled at by accepting the role.

Some potential senior employees would negotiate for more starting salary, on occasion they would get it.

I am sure the Victorian mine and mill owners thought the same as you.
In fact you would have fitted in very well .

Annetje Mar 24th 2018 1:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12468974)
They don't.

They suppress wages full-stop.

A job that was £15/hr ten years ago would have inflated up to £19/hr today, but as the supply of workers who are prepared to do that job has massively increased, both by persistent high net immigration and the expanding of the reserve pool of labour, that job can still be filled at £15/hr or cheaper.

The increase in labour supply has suppressed the wages. This is especially so when the labour concerned is more prepared to underhouse themselves etc than the domestic worker and can more readily afford to work for less.

I think you are mixing up workers now.
We were NOT talking 15 £/hour jobs.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you once mentioned that EU immigrants (most of them) are low paid low skilled workers.
They pick carrots, make beds, clean toilets, etc ... and by doing that you claim that they suppress wages (full stop) ???
You can say what you want but these sort of jobs ARE paid min wage whether it's a Brit or a Pool doing it. And this Pool does NOT suppress min wage.

Now, my 2nd question : Why do Brits not do these jobs so the Pools don't have to come and sort it out for you ?
Claiming that they prefer their own bedroom is a bit weird. Min wage should be enough to survive life in the UK, I hope. Is this not the case ?

And lastly, this dream that employees set the wages ... This only works in very high paid jobs. Not for the toilet cleaner.

DaveLovesDee Mar 24th 2018 1:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12468978)
You are wrong.

The employer sets the rate they want to pay.

The employee sets the rate that IS paid by taking the role.

I can set a rate of £7.50 an hour for a qualified engineer in London, but I will not get any takers.

I would have to keep increasing the rate upwards until I hit a point where a potential employee is interested - they have set the rate at which the job is agreed.

So effective you're trying to suppress wages until you set a rate which the employee will agree to.

That rate will be similar to what your competitors pay.


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