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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Mar 20th 2018, 10:56 am
  #31426  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

I’ve already pointed out The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-develo...ntal-rights_en
Have you glanced at it? Taken in the value of it?
This is what Brits are expected so joyfully to surrender next year for a devalued status via promised future ‘care’ of a largely faceless elite.
In summary Citizens have Rights (and responsibilities) usually expressed by written Constitution, guaranteed & balanced by an independent protective organ, normally a Court.
Subjects don’t. Their hobbled liberties are granted by restrictive piecemeal laws - usually totally disproportionate to the actual need of the time, and then discarded in the blink of an administrative eye, like a pet given an occasional inadequate scrap. Without Constitution, power is the sole preserve of the few (the ‘law givers’ chant of the swivel-eyed loons).
In Britain, history shows lots of blinks whenever its non-representative strata considers it suitable to their interests; - enabled by its cankerous lack of oversight and accountability of its head of state.
To name but a few, its restrictive trade union laws, the dependency culture created by an anaemically kept state & money centred further education systems, and finally the restrictive access to justice without money.
What I genuinely can’t understand here is why so many are so keen to condemn not only themselves, but their kids & grand-kids back into social serfdom. I conclude they just didn’t deserve their current status in the first place. I hope you enjoy your chlorinated chicken, fracking and privatised NHS. Truly it's deserved.
Talk about BBC & Daily Mail conditioning...
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 11:31 am
  #31427  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I must stop drinking coffee when reading your posts. The keyboard keeps wearing it.
I like to slip in a bit of entertainment for you guys here and there.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 11:34 am
  #31428  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Smog apparently is going to join a protest by fishermen and flinging fish ( or get one of his serfs to do it ) at the houses of Parliament.
I cannot understand why they are getting so upset, we are leaving its what they voted for.
They are upset because the EU is still the daddy when it comes to fishing grounds during the transition.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 11:35 am
  #31429  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
I’ve already pointed out The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/aid-develo...ntal-rights_en
Have you glanced at it? Taken in the value of it?
This is what Brits are expected so joyfully to surrender next year for a devalued status via promised future ‘care’ of a largely faceless elite.
In summary Citizens have Rights (and responsibilities) usually expressed by written Constitution, guaranteed & balanced by an independent protective organ, normally a Court.
Subjects don’t. Their hobbled liberties are granted by restrictive piecemeal laws - usually totally disproportionate to the actual need of the time, and then discarded in the blink of an administrative eye, like a pet given an occasional inadequate scrap. Without Constitution, power is the sole preserve of the few (the ‘law givers’ chant of the swivel-eyed loons).
In Britain, history shows lots of blinks whenever its non-representative strata considers it suitable to their interests; - enabled by its cankerous lack of oversight and accountability of its head of state.
To name but a few, its restrictive trade union laws, the dependency culture created by an anaemically kept state & money centred further education systems, and finally the restrictive access to justice without money.
What I genuinely can’t understand here is why so many are so keen to condemn not only themselves, but their kids & grand-kids back into social serfdom. I conclude they just didn’t deserve their current status in the first place. I hope you enjoy your chlorinated chicken, fracking and privatised NHS. Truly it's deserved.
Talk about BBC & Daily Mail conditioning...
Yes, people who think differently than you are conditioned by the Daily Mail.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 11:43 am
  #31430  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
They are upset because the EU is still the daddy when it comes to fishing grounds during the transition.
Why did they vote for it then?

Remember - they voted for whatever comes next provided we leave - there were no details on the voting slip which allows the government to do what they want and make it up as they go along. It was pointed out many times that it would be a complete mess but they still voted for it.

Also, oddly, whatever happens they appear to be happy to let the government just get on with it, unlike many remainers who would like a final say.

Their fault.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 11:53 am
  #31431  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
They are upset because the EU is still the daddy when it comes to fishing grounds during the transition.
Because that's what the UK agreed to in return for something they wanted. Has the media told us what that was yet?
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 12:10 pm
  #31432  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Because that's what the UK agreed to in return for something they wanted. Has the media told us what that was yet?
Probably for just agreeing that there will be a transition at all.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 12:27 pm
  #31433  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Probably for just agreeing that there will be a transition at all.
Actually, according to some reports, it's in exchange for being able to have their cake (being able to make new FTAs) and erating it (keeping the benefits of the single market, customs union and the EU's current FTAs) until the end of the transition period, 31st Dec 2020.

But hasn't the UK just agreed to the same deal that was on the table a year ago?
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 12:38 pm
  #31434  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The majority of the UK are clueless in matters of international trade and sovereignty. If we Brexit and pull away from the EU, many of the citizens disgruntled with the EU foreigners will be equally disgruntled with the global foreigners. Saying that it can all be resolved by electing a new government disregards the hard choices that will have to be made.
The difference between "EU foreigners" and "global foreigners" as you call them is that the UK currently only has control of the latter. After the transition period the UK will have control of both categories.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 12:43 pm
  #31435  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
They are upset because the EU is still the daddy when it comes to fishing grounds during the transition.
May in her speech said reciprocal access will continue after we keave.
We need access to their waters for the 75 % of fish caught by UK boats that we then export.
EU boats and not allowed to fish our inshore waters under current regulations.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 12:45 pm
  #31436  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
The difference between "EU foreigners" and "global foreigners" as you call them is that the UK currently only has control of the latter. After the transition period the UK will have control of both categories.
Which will still mean a level of migration that many brexiters will not be happy with .
As you say we will have control of the 200,000 plus who will still come to the UK.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 1:13 pm
  #31437  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
The difference between "EU foreigners" and "global foreigners" as you call them is that the UK currently only has control of the latter. After the transition period the UK will have control of both categories.
Yes the UK currently only has control over the non-EU foreigners, but it's repeatedly promised at election time to bring the numbers down to tens of thousands. That it has not done so lies squarely on the government's shoulders.

If the government can't or won't reduce the migrant numbers it already has the ability to control, what makes you think future EU national numbers will be reduced?
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 1:48 pm
  #31438  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Yes the UK currently only has control over the non-EU foreigners, but it's repeatedly promised at election time to bring the numbers down to tens of thousands. That it has not done so lies squarely on the government's shoulders.

If the government can't or won't reduce the migrant numbers it already has the ability to control, what makes you think future EU national numbers will be reduced?
Other than jobs paying in a currency that had a favourable exchange rate, and in many cases, relatives living there, there really isn't all that much attractive about England. Crowded, high cost of living, high crime rate, crap weather... and xenophobia...

So, no worries. Conditions in Europe are improving all the time, and there's no evidence Brexit will bring any upside to England... So it's likely European migration numbers will fall quite naturally, without having to kick them out.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 1:49 pm
  #31439  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Yes the UK currently only has control over the non-EU foreigners, but it's repeatedly promised at election time to bring the numbers down to tens of thousands. That it has not done so lies squarely on the government's shoulders.

If the government can't or won't reduce the migrant numbers it already has the ability to control, what makes you think future EU national numbers will be reduced?
As countries like India, Australia and New Zealand care seeking more relaxed immigration rules for their citizens as part of trade deals the " non EU " percentage will probably increase.
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Old Mar 20th 2018, 1:59 pm
  #31440  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Yes the UK currently only has control over the non-EU foreigners, but it's repeatedly promised at election time to bring the numbers down to tens of thousands. That it has not done so lies squarely on the government's shoulders.

If the government can't or won't reduce the migrant numbers it already has the ability to control, what makes you think future EU national numbers will be reduced?
Non EU immigration is primarily based on round pegs being hired for round holes. After the UK leaves, immigration from the EU will be on the same basis. If the availability of those positions falls as a result of a slowing economy then the number of immigrants will also fall. If the economy continues to grow then the need for immigrants that fulfil the job requirements will continue.
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