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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Cape Blue Mar 2nd 2018 9:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12454771)
I thought you disagreed with anything in the Guardian?

95% - occasionally they bring in some common sense as click-bait for their rabid remainiac readership.

DaveLovesDee Mar 2nd 2018 9:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454775)
95% - occasionally they bring in some common sense as click-bait for their rabid remainiac readership.

Remember this?


Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12270524)
Quoting the Guardian is the leftist/remainer equivalent of quoting the Daily Mail. The Guardian's coverage of Brexit has been a disgrace - entirely biased and anti-British.

Did you read the reports from the other 3 writers on that page, from different viewpoints.

Cape Blue Mar 2nd 2018 9:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12454779)
Remember this?

Did you read the reports from the other 3 writers on that page, from different viewpoints.

Yes I do remember it and stand by it - the vast majority of Guardian articles on brexit are project fear tosh, just like their ridiculous feminism articles.

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

Cape Blue Mar 2nd 2018 9:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12454772)
The lack of clarity coming from the UK is actually a godsend to the EU. All they need do is say, sorry there's nothing we can agree to here, and as we approach the cliff, Britain will be forced into a national reckoning. Waiting it out is there best strategy and, what luck, the Conservative in-fighting has enabled just that.

Where is the lack of clarity?

Divorce bill - "we will pay"
Current EU citizens in the UK - "they can stay"
SM/CU - "we will leave"
FTA - "we want to negotiate a deep and wide FTA that benefits both parties"

It seems pretty clear to me.

EMR Mar 2nd 2018 9:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12454752)
I did ask Mancha whether Brexiteers and Remainers came together now, but he disappeared in a flash, not to be seen again ...

Tho whole bl**dy speech was one very long wish list !

To be fair it was a bit more than a wish list , concessions that will pee off the hard line brexiters and an admission that the grass will not be greener but very patchy and shitty brown .
Continuing FOM during the transition period.
The EU negotiators will have recognised that May is desperate for a deal, as the alternative for the UK without one is the road to economic ruin.

The No deal option is off the table., that's why Farage is so unhappy.

DaveLovesDee Mar 2nd 2018 10:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454782)
Yes I do remember it and stand by it - the vast majority of Guardian articles on brexit are project fear tosh, just like their ridiculous feminism articles.

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

And religious zealots always believe their cause is just, and that everyone else is trying to subvert their religion.

Brexit Has Become a Religion and Resistance is for the Heretics


Their mantra is gospel. “The will of the people.” They say it often and loudly, and usually in order to avoid answering a question regarding something complicated. “The will of the people” would be stamped in 20 foot letters at the alter of the church of Brexit and would be the first line of the Brexit bible. Religious zealots everywhere use the excuse “It’s God’s will” when explaining away some sort of horrific catastrophe, but the Brexit mantra shouldn’t be as all encompassing. It was the will of a very slim majority of 72%, who were eligible for the ballot, that voted for the UK to leave the EU, and the referendum itself was a bafflingly vague question. To use it carte blanche to defend any decision the Brexit department makes regarding the negotiations is ludicrous.

Shard Mar 2nd 2018 10:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454784)
Where is the lack of clarity?

Divorce bill - "we will pay"
Current EU citizens in the UK - "they can stay"
SM/CU - "we will leave"
FTA - "we want to negotiate a deep and wide FTA that benefits both parties"

It seems pretty clear to me.

The devil is in the detail, particularly with the SM/CU/FTA and NI. Other points, yes, reasonable clarity.

DaveLovesDee Mar 2nd 2018 10:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454784)
Where is the lack of clarity?

SM/CU - "we will leave"

I thought May today she wanted 'a customs union...


FTA - "we want to negotiate a deep and wide FTA that benefits both parties"
It's been explained before, that the kind of FTA the UK wants has never been agreed with anyone by the EU, because it's a better deal than any EU member state gets.

Annetje Mar 2nd 2018 11:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454784)
Where is the lack of clarity?

Divorce bill - "we will pay"
Current EU citizens in the UK - "they can stay"
SM/CU - "we will leave"
FTA - "we want to negotiate a deep and wide FTA that benefits both parties"

It seems pretty clear to me.


Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12454789)
The devil is in the detail, particularly with the SM/CU/FTA and NI. Other points, yes, reasonable clarity.

AND

Divorce bill - Davis said we won't pay if we don't get what we want on the Irish border issue
EU citizens - Ask any of them, it is NOT clear to them under what conditions

amideislas Mar 3rd 2018 4:57 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454727)
We are leaving, no need to shoot ones bolt too early, we have the millions of Europeans who will lose their jobs to think about if we do not let them agree a FTA with us first.

It's the UK that is leaving, not England.

Only the unthinking would suggest an immediate departure without trying to agree an orderly process.

Millions of Europeans will lose jobs? Why would that happen? Europe is hardly dependent on the UK, quite the opposite, actually, which explains much about why England is having such difficulty leaving. Besides, that's a rather inflated view of one's own importance (or as social psychologists point out, an "inferiority complex"). Which of course, explains much about Brexit.

England runs the UK. It incited the anti-EU rhetoric,, published the propaganda, held the referendum, and voted to leave. But the others didn't. And none of the UK's remaining (subordinate) provinces are happy about how this is going.

amideislas Mar 3rd 2018 5:29 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12454788)
And religious zealots always believe their cause is just, and that everyone else is trying to subvert their religion.

Brexit Has Become a Religion and Resistance is for the Heretics

Speaking of "the will of the people", "democracy", and " sovereignty", this is a very good read... (Warning: uses big words and explores complex concepts).

The strange case of Brexit and British sovereignty

The Brainstorm long read: none of the ideas put forward by Brexiteers imply that Britain’s sovereignty rests on implementing the 2016 referendum

Shard Mar 3rd 2018 5:50 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12454827)
AND

Divorce bill - Davis said we won't pay if we don't get what we want on the Irish border issue
EU citizens - Ask any of them, it is NOT clear to them under what conditions

Thanks. There's been so much contradictory bluster in the press lately, that I've switched off somewhat from what is happening. My general sense is that the May government is deluding itself about what can be achieved with the EU. The problem is that Britain (especially old school Britain) likes to be rational and assumes Europe is rational too. It isn't. The French and Italians in particular are ready to follow economically sub-optimal choices if it furthers their national psyche. A good example is the Eastern European integration where Britain flung open the doors, but the Continent went against the spirit of the agreement for their own practical reasons. Britain assumes the EU will act in its own economic interests, but there's a good chance they won't. So the question becomes who has more to lose? Probably us.

Shard Mar 3rd 2018 5:51 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12454985)
Millions of Europeans will lose jobs? Why would that happen? Europe is hardly dependent on the UK, quite the opposite, actually, which explains much about why England is having such difficulty leaving. Besides, that's a rather inflated view of one's own importance (or as social psychologists point out, an "inferiority complex"). Which of course, explains much about Brexit.

England runs the UK. It incited the anti-EU rhetoric,, published the propaganda, held the referendum, and voted to leave. But the others didn't. And none of the UK's remaining (subordinate) provinces are happy about how this is going.

:goodpost:

Assanah Mar 3rd 2018 7:33 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12454994)
Thanks. There's been so much contradictory bluster in the press lately, that I've switched off somewhat from what is happening. My general sense is that the May government is deluding itself about what can be achieved with the EU. The problem is that Britain (especially old school Britain) likes to be rational and assumes Europe is rational too. It isn't. The French and Italians in particular are ready to follow economically sub-optimal choices if it furthers their national psyche. A good example is the Eastern European integration where Britain flung open the doors, but the Continent went against the spirit of the agreement for their own practical reasons. Britain assumes the EU will act in its own economic interests, but there's a good chance they won't. So the question becomes who has more to lose? Probably us.

And Brexit is very rational and totally the optimal choices economically?If there is a coutnry that is totally irrational it is Britain. And as has been said a million times before the EU's first and foremost interest was, is and will be the coherence of the internal market which excludes countries to pick and choose. That by the way is also the totally irrational priority of the German car makers who said that they will miss the British market but the EU market is so much more important that they are prepared to lose the British one in order to save the EU market. Totally economically irrational to favour a bigger and richer market to a smaller poorer one.

The UK can have full access to the EU internal market if it pays fo it, accepts FOM, and follows EU laws. If it is not prepared to accept that it will have to make due with a Canada trade deal like all the other many, many countries out there in this big world. None of them has a special Canada plus plus plus deal.

Fredbargate Mar 3rd 2018 7:59 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Yesterday 1pm

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12454311)
...so what's going to happen at the Paddy Border as you call it?


Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12454679)
I suspect a hard border - as I have from the start.

Yesterday PM's speach
But it is not good enough to say, 'We won't introduce a hard border; if the EU forces Ireland to do it, that's down to them'. We chose to leave; we have a responsibility to help find a solution.

Fred 3 days ago

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12452513)
I cannot see a problem with the Irish border.
We leave our side open and unregulated as promised.
The EU will shit itself and build their defenses on Irish land



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