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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

DaveLovesDee Feb 21st 2018 10:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447302)
Merely pointing-out that the commissioning organisation sets the questions, not the polling company. If that commissioning org is "Best for Britain" it might lean one way with the type of question, if it was UKIP it might lean another way.

I doubt any respectable and professional polling company would ask the question the way you phrased it.

Think about it.

morpeth Feb 21st 2018 11:02 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12444792)
No that's not been explained at all.

You've simply held up the idea that until a person's wage reaches a certain level, they cost more in provision of services or eligibility for welfare than is removed from their wages in taxes.


It seems logical that the cost of providing services may exceed the contribution in taxes from lower-paid workers. Considering all the debate on the subject of migrants and lower-paid jobs, have there been any estimates on the costs of services ( all inclusive) per person in UK ?

DaveLovesDee Feb 21st 2018 11:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Timmy Chch (Post 12447298)
We voted for an aussie/nz type points system not a Trump wall stopping everyone

You're joking, right?

I didn't see any question on the referendum ballot referring to either a points system or a wall. Did yours?

We already have a immigration system for non-EU nationals, which the Home Office can control at any time by reducing the number of visas available. They choose not to, mostly because they make millions from the visa applications.

EMR Feb 21st 2018 11:15 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12447334)
It seems logical that the cost of providing services may exceed the contribution in taxes from lower-paid workers. Considering all the debate on the subject of migrants and lower-paid jobs, have there been any estimates on the costs of services ( all inclusive) per person in UK ?

Workers in the low pay sector immigrant or British born are not net contributors.
The unemployed or those unable to work are not net contributors .
Millions of pensioners and the elderly are not net contributors.
It suggests that the majority of the UK population are using Capes measure NOT net contributors to the economy.
But of course the billions they spend keeps millions employed.

The UK is not a society where access to education, health and even now to a lesser extent than it once was to decent housing is linked to income.
Call it socialism or one nation Conservatism depends on your viewpoint.

Red Eric Feb 21st 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447282)
Yes, but the issue is the questions polled - "would you accept some migration from the EU as access to the single market so your children don't starve and we don't end up in a dystopian hell-hole"? - the polling organisation ask the questions their masters give them.

Leaving aside that particular farce of a question, that was precisely the point I was making. Once you get beyond Q "What is your major concern from this list?" A "Immigration", you get a rather different picture within the same group being polled.

And you completely ignored the section of the article which talks about similar but separate research supporting the same principle :

A separate study by researchers at King’s College London, the Rand thinktank and Cambridge University used a technique called “stated preference discrete choice experiments” to ask people to weight different priorities.

It found very little appetite for the government’s “no deal is better than a bad deal” approach to the talks, and voters much keener to compromise.

“Our research is one of the most rigorous assessments to date of what the public wants from Brexit, and it clearly shows that the British people do not wish to head over a cliff edge and leave the EU on World Trade Organisation rules – they want a proper deal,” said Jonathan Grant, the professor of public policy at King’s College London. “The British public are sophisticated enough to understand that they can’t ‘have their cake and eat it’, and will need to make and accept compromises to reach a deal.”

The team found that supposed red lines on immigration and leaving the European court of justice were far less important to voters than the government.

“While our results do show a desire to control movement of people to some extent, we find that this stems from a concern about managing demand for public services, rather than from wanting to limit freedom of movement per se,” wrote the team led by Charlene Rohr of Rand.

“Our analysis indicated that, on average, respondents would prefer a future relationship in which the UK is able to make and interpret all laws itself, but this was considered less important than maintaining free trade or being able to negotiate new trade deals independently.”

Red Eric Feb 21st 2018 12:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12447334)
It seems logical that the cost of providing services may exceed the contribution in taxes from lower-paid workers. Considering all the debate on the subject of migrants and lower-paid jobs, have there been any estimates on the costs of services ( all inclusive) per person in UK ?

I don't deny that.

What I was saying is that the taxes those workers pay aren't the sum total of their contribution to the economy or to society.

Cape Blue Feb 21st 2018 1:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12447330)
I doubt any respectable and professional polling company would ask the question the way you phrased it.

Think about it.

It was just an example from the Guardian.

Dry your eyes.

EMR Feb 21st 2018 1:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447456)
It was just an example from the Guardian.

Dry your eyes.

You dismissed the Guardian response to the Smog and co letter to May.
It's headline news on BBC has made all the respected news sites.
Are they too just a bunch of remainiacs.

Cape Blue Feb 21st 2018 1:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12447354)
Workers in the low pay sector immigrant or British born are not net contributors.
The unemployed or those unable to work are not net contributors .
Millions of pensioners and the elderly are not net contributors.
It suggests that the majority of the UK population are using Capes measure NOT net contributors to the economy.
But of course the billions they spend keeps millions employed.

The UK is not a society where access to education, health and even now to a lesser extent than it once was to decent housing is linked to income.
Call it socialism or one nation Conservatism depends on your viewpoint.

Yes, many people are not net contributors - so why import more who aren't? How is that going too help?

Many pensioners are BTW.

EMR Feb 21st 2018 1:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447458)
Yes, many people are not net contributors - so why import more who aren't? How is that going too help?

Many pensioners are BTW.

How can the average pensioner who receives regular medical, treatment costing tens of thousands of pounds using your logic be a net contributors.
As we know you dismiss the spending power of the less affluent.
What was it you posted," Aldi, Lidl and William Hill ".
I thought that you would be happy not having to rub shoulders with them in the queue at Waitrose.

DaveLovesDee Feb 21st 2018 2:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447456)
It was just an example from the Guardian.

Dry your eyes.

Really. I didn't read that question in the Guardian.....

Red Eric Feb 21st 2018 2:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Just to settle the matter about whether people really were asked if they'd rather keep mass uncontrolled immigration or be stabbed up the jacksy with a rusty crowbar, here are the actual questions and results :

https://blog.bestforbritain.org/wp-c...mmigration.pdf

And here's another YouGov poll saying roughly the same thing, this one not commissioned by Best for Britain and with a report on the results published in Business Insider rather than The Guardian (as if that makes any bleedin' difference :rolleyes:) :
New poll finds the British public have turned against a 'Hard Brexit'

Red Eric Feb 21st 2018 2:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12447458)
Yes, many people are not net contributors - so why import more who aren't? How is that going too help?

Maybe they could contribute by the correct use of English, helping to keep it pure. A lot of foreigners are better than some of the native speakers ;)

Cape Blue Feb 21st 2018 2:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12447463)
How can the average pensioner who receives regular medical, treatment costing tens of thousands of pounds using your logic be a net contributors.
As we know you dismiss the spending power of the less affluent.
What was it you posted," Aldi, Lidl and William Hill ".
I thought that you would be happy not having to rub shoulders with them in the queue at Waitrose.

Because those pensioners paid for the NHS infrastructure when it was built and many who have private sector pensions still pay now. As I pointed-out before the NHS is near 80% fixed costs.

I did not post "Aldi, Lidle and William Hill".

Waitrose is my nearest supermarket.

Cape Blue Feb 21st 2018 2:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12447512)
Just to settle the matter about whether people really were asked if they'd rather keep mass uncontrolled immigration or be stabbed up the jacksy with a rusty crowbar, here are the actual questions and results :

https://blog.bestforbritain.org/wp-c...mmigration.pdf

And here's another YouGov poll saying roughly the same thing, this one not commissioned by Best for Britain and with a report on the results published in Business Insider rather than The Guardian (as if that makes any bleedin' difference :rolleyes:) :
New poll finds the British public have turned against a 'Hard Brexit'

I like the way they equate moving for work in the same way as coming for a holiday - classic way to push their agenda and blur the question.


Now imagine the government changed the rules so that EU citizens were allowed to travel to Britain for work, tourism or education, but had to return to their own countries if they had not found a job or a university place within three months.
Another old poll funded by the Remainer Times.


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