British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

mfesharne Sep 10th 2016 2:11 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12048469)
E

Do you understand the difference between "the majority of the electorate" and "the majority of those who voted"?

The current size of the British electorate is about 46,499,537. As they say here, "do the math". For those of you worried, I repeat that nobody is saying that Leave didn't win the referendum.

Yes I do but that difference is totally irrelevant because the referendum has to be (and was) held under the current democratic rules of the day which stipulate those who choose not to vote or to spoil their vote are not counted either way & the count is solely on the votes cast & in this case the majority voted to leave & that's an end to the matter.

If you and the rest of the remainers don't like those rules you have the democratic right to ask your elected representatives to propose a motion to change them & after debate, you might get your way...... but that won't affect the result of the Brexit referendum.

Lion in Winter Sep 10th 2016 2:23 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12048476)
Yes I do but that difference is totally irrelevant because the referendum has to be (and was) held under the current democratic rules of the day which stipulate those who choose not to vote or to spoil their vote are not counted either way & the count is solely on the votes cast & in this case the majority voted to leave & that's an end to the matter.

If you and the rest of the remainers don't like those rules you have the democratic right to ask your elected representatives to propose a motion to change them & after debate, you might get your way...... but that won't affect the result of the Brexit referendum.

What on earth are you on about?

I only pointed out that your repeated assertion that "the majority of the electorate voted to leave" is wrong.

The end.

TGA Sep 10th 2016 2:28 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The majority of the electorate either wanted brexit or where too thick to understand the importance of the referendum

Lion in Winter Sep 10th 2016 2:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TGA (Post 12048486)
The majority of the electorate either wanted brexit or where too thick to understand the importance of the referendum

Now that I might grant you...

amideislas Sep 10th 2016 2:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12048416)
Didn't really need to.

Tell me Ami, if the remaining flat earth remoaners had their way for a rerun referendum, what do you think the result would be now that their one and only weapon, the pathetic fear-mongering campaign has been fully exposed for the total load of bullshit it truly was ?

Well, that's all hypothetical, but polls have been taken and considering the many that now realise how completely misleading and downright untruthful the leave camp was, it seems clear that it would go to remain in a 2nd referendum. And add to that those who simply didnt vote because they expected a remain result. After all, leave won with only a slim margin.

But it's too late for that now. Brexit is brexit and all that rot. Besides the UK just doesn't belong in the club. And frankly, Europe needs unity, not the divisive vitriol that Farage was spewing constantly, nor the self-serving arrogance. Britain should just go.

Bipat Sep 10th 2016 2:40 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12048469)
E



Do you understand the difference between "the majority of the electorate" and "the majority of those who voted"?

The current size of the British electorate is about 46,499,537. As they say here, "do the math". For those of you worried, I repeat that nobody is saying that Leave didn't win the referendum.

What is the solution then? Each vote in a referendum counts equally.
Compulsory voting would mean the disinterested or those without an opinion would be forced to vote, would this be preferable?

The Alternative Vote Referendum 2011. I voted for change from present system it was defeated.
So---- should I refuse to accept the result because many people didn't bother to vote and spend time insulting those who voted to keep the present system.

Lion in Winter Sep 10th 2016 2:53 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12048495)
What is the solution then? Each vote in a referendum counts equally.
Compulsory voting would mean the disinterested or those without an opinion would be forced to vote, would this be preferable?

The Alternative Vote Referendum 2011. I voted for change from present system it was defeated.
So---- should I refuse to accept the result because many people didn't bother to vote and spend time insulting those who voted to keep the present system.

:banghead:

All I said - and meant - was that the assertion "the majority of the electorate voted to Leave" is incorrect.

I didn't suggest that the result was incorrect, the process unfair, that Leave didn't win, that people should be forced to vote, or anything else. Breathe people, breathe.

amideislas Sep 10th 2016 2:55 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Facts are prohibited in the church of leave.

It's blasphemy, LIW. Pure and simple.

Lion in Winter Sep 10th 2016 2:57 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12048504)
It's blasphemy, LIW. Pure and simple.

Oh. That would explain it.

I thought it was maths.

Bipat Sep 10th 2016 3:02 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12048501)
:banghead:

All I said - and meant - was that the assertion "the majority of the electorate voted to Leave" is incorrect.

I didn't suggest that the result was incorrect, the process unfair, that Leave didn't win, that people should be forced to vote, or anything else. Breathe people, breathe.

I know that was your assertion!!!

I was just wondering what is the solution for the (losing) public to accept a decision with 'good grace' in a referendum or election and whether you had any ideas.

amideislas Sep 10th 2016 3:05 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I think they have to just chalk it up to having been suckered and try to make the best of it. If it all goes pear shaped, there are other places to live.

Bipat Sep 10th 2016 3:35 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12048514)
I think they have to just chalk it up to having been suckered and try to make the best of it. If it all goes pear shaped, there are other places to live.


Explain to me why it was that only those who voted to remain, were aware of the 'truths'/'lies', able to listen to politicians/ read the newspapers with understanding/discuss with friends, neighbours and relatives and make a sensible decision as to how to vote?

If they added a quick IQ test to the voting paper would all we Brexiters come out below 100?:lol::lol:
(As there are millions of us, we can revert back to our caves and live on mammoth and chips, while all the remainers go forth and conquer the world ---sorry:lol:---to much celebration wine--they do have it outside of Europe you know!)

amideislas Sep 10th 2016 4:18 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12048532)
Explain to me why it was that only those who voted to remain, were aware of the 'truths'/'lies', able to listen to politicians/ read the newspapers with understanding/discuss with friends, neighbours and relatives and make a sensible decision as to how to vote?

If they added a quick IQ test to the voting paper would all we Brexiters come out below 100?:lol::lol:
(As there are millions of us, we can revert back to our caves and live on mammoth and chips, while all the remainers go forth and conquer the world ---sorry:lol:---to much celebration wine--they do have it outside of Europe you know!)

Well, it's obvious what the vote was about (and has been well analysed since).

First, it was about immigration. You know, all those non-white non-english speaking foreigners showing up and stealing our jobs?

As it turns out, facts were rare. The leave camp muddled the lines between those that come from Europe and contributing a net positive to the country, and the larger contingent of non-EU immigrants, under strict control of the UK's very own, extremely generous immigration policy. They also muddled the lines between those two groups and proceeded to exaggerate the numbers of illegal immigrants, which has nothing to do with either the EU or UK immigration policy. Finally, greatly exaggerate the "swarms" of refugees entering and claiming asylum in the country because of our nonexistent "open borders" which were "forced" on Britain by the "dictatorial" EU.

...and then blamed the whole lot on the EU in one swath of the brush.

Second, it was of course, the EU contribution, a paltry sum compared to the UK's impressive GDP, of which the lion's share of the segment of GDP generated through trade is facilitated by the UK's EU membership. Trillions pass through the UK in global trade with Europe, and are taxed... It was Britain's easiest cash cow. But that will be leaving along with the UK.

Third, "sovereignty". Hmm... This actually has a slight bit of legitimacy. Britain is a very proud and nationalistic nation. And although it would equally adopt most of the same laws as EU law, there is a legitimate gripe about certain aspects. In any case, the effect of the handful of EU regulations which might have some downsides in certain segments of the economy were exaggerated into gargantuan economic hellholes for the UK, although in truth, those few problematic regulations could have been sorted out in other ways, and had little economic impact.

But nationalism was the overriding theme. Even though post-brexit, the UK will be just as sovereign and free as it was in the EU. In fact, the UK is the single most sovereign and autonomous member of the EU bar none, with by far the most opt-outs. Nobody else has that.

The entire premise was at the least, a gross exaggeration, and at worst, a complete lie.

To add injury to insult, it's going to be very, very expensive, and only result in humiliation for Britain. All for a pack of sensationalist bullshit.

And a lot more people know it now. But it's too late. Britain will now have to live with the consequences.

You talk about caves and Stone age, well, it won't be that bad, but there will be some very uncomfortable downsizing. And nobody's going to like that at all. Probably will vote some far-left government back in to spend itself into oblivion. Again.

Oh, by the way, Google "brexit demographics". You might be surprised at the profiles of those who voted leave. You thought you were being sarcastic!

Bipat Sep 10th 2016 5:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12048560)
Well, it's obvious what the vote was about (and has been well analysed since).

First, it was about immigration. You know, all those non-white non-english speaking foreigners showing up and stealing our jobs?

As it turns out, facts were rare. The leave camp muddled the lines between those that come from Europe and contributing a net positive to the country, and the larger contingent of non-EU immigrants, under strict control of the UK's very own, extremely generous immigration policy. They also muddled the lines between those two groups and proceeded to exaggerate the numbers of illegal immigrants, which has nothing to do with either the EU or UK immigration policy. Finally, greatly exaggerate the "swarms" of refugees entering and claiming asylum in the country because of our nonexistent "open borders" which were "forced" on Britain by the "dictatorial" EU.

...and then blamed the whole lot on the EU in one swath of the brush.

Second, it was of course, the EU contribution, a paltry sum compared to the UK's impressive GDP, of which the lion's share of the segment of GDP generated through trade is facilitated by the UK's EU membership. Trillions pass through the UK in global trade with Europe, and are taxed... It was Britain's easiest cash cow. But that will be leaving along with the UK.

Third, "sovereignty". Hmm... This actually has a slight bit of legitimacy. Britain is a very proud and nationalistic nation. And although it would equally adopt most of the same laws as EU law, there is a legitimate gripe about certain aspects. In any case, the effect of the handful of EU regulations which might have some downsides in certain segments of the economy were exaggerated into gargantuan economic hellholes for the UK, although in truth, those few problematic regulations could have been sorted out in other ways, and had little economic impact.

But nationalism was the overriding theme. Even though post-brexit, the UK will be just as sovereign and free as it was in the EU. In fact, the UK is the single most sovereign and autonomous member of the EU bar none, with by far the most opt-outs. Nobody else has that.

The entire premise was at the least, a gross exaggeration, and at worst, a complete lie.

To add injury to insult, it's going to be very, very expensive, and only result in humiliation for Britain. All for a pack of sensationalist bullshit.

And a lot more people know it now. But it's too late. Britain will now have to live with the consequences.

You talk about caves and Stone age, well, it won't be that bad, but there will be some very uncomfortable downsizing. And nobody's going to like that at all. Probably will vote some far-left government back in to spend itself into oblivion. Again.

Oh, by the way, Google "brexit demographics". You might be surprised at the profiles of those who voted leave. You thought you were being sarcastic!

My question was why did the remain voters know all this but not those who voted leave? (Has the IQ of all been tested --nobody tested mine or any one that I know:lol::lol:)
Could it be that those who voted leave just disagree with your views?

Why did those of non-EU origin vote in the same proportions?

(Why did some remainers including, I remember, one on this Forum state that they preferred immigrants who looked like them?)

You imply that only EU rather than non-EU immigrants make a positive contribution, maybe I misunderstood you?

Anyway it's late I had better F off.

amideislas Sep 10th 2016 5:28 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12048587)
My question was why did the remain voters know all this but not those who voted leave? (Has the IQ of all been tested --nobody tested mine or any one that I know:lol::lol:)
Could it be that those who voted leave just disagree with your views?

Why did those of non-EU origin vote in the same proportions?

(Why did some remainers including, I remember, one on this Forum state that they preferred immigrants who looked like them?)

You imply that only EU rather than non-EU immigrants make a positive contribution, maybe I misunderstood you?

Anyway it's late I had better F off.

Like so many others, you don't seem to understand what the referendum was about. I don't know if the short memory is out of convenience or not, but you seem to have forgotten.

The remain camp did understand. The leave camp simply didn't. They bought the sensationalist bullshit and the rest is history. What do you want now?

I imply nothing other than the fact the the vast majority of EU immigrants contribute a net positive to the economy, despite being labeled as "benefits cheats" by the leave camp (well, basically all were labeled as benefits sucking in one way or another - there was little distinction made at all).


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:49 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.