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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Jan 20th 2018, 1:29 pm
  #27181  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Yes it does and I know because I've been subject to them. It's one of the reasons I get quite angry when people abuse the system.

Presently EU sponsors in the UK actually get a far easier time when sponsoring their non-EU partners than the British do.
Abuse of any system can get its citizens riled up BUT what happens where there is no abuse and one wonders why the UK has adopted different requirements for non EU citizens. Are they suggesting that Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders are more of a risk than citizens of Latvia, Romania, Slovakia, Estonia etc.

So at the moment the income requirement for a UK citizen wishing to sponsor a non EEA spouse is 18,600 pounds and rises dependent on how many children.

So imagine this scenario John/Mary is a UK citizen. They meet Cassandra/William who are US citizens. None of the parties have any children. Both Cassandra and William are lawyers in the USA and have actually been qualified to practice law in the UK. Trouble is John/Mary only earn 17, 000 a year. So couldn't sponsor their spouse.

Now John/Mary meet Tatiana/Sergei who are both lap dancers in Latvia so John?Mary could sponsor their spouse.

Makes absolute perfect ****ing sense to me.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 1:46 pm
  #27182  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
The UK has no "bit" to do. It doesn't owe anything to France or any of these criminals. Like always we're just picking up after the French and compensating for their laziness and mistakes.

Rightfully France is a country that shouldn't exist anymore. They clearly have no interest in the survival of their own country and culture and have only made it this far because Britain and America have been there to save them. Although of course they will never show an ounce of appreciation for any of that.


Getting desperate are you ? The rubbish coming out of you is getting more ridiculous every time you post
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:18 pm
  #27183  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post


Getting desperate are you ? The rubbish coming out of you is getting more ridiculous every time you post
Believe me, that post was me choosing my words very carefully. I doubt this forum would like it if I truly stated my feelings towards France.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:24 pm
  #27184  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Abuse of any system can get its citizens riled up BUT what happens where there is no abuse and one wonders why the UK has adopted different requirements for non EU citizens. Are they suggesting that Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders are more of a risk than citizens of Latvia, Romania, Slovakia, Estonia etc.

So at the moment the income requirement for a UK citizen wishing to sponsor a non EEA spouse is 18,600 pounds and rises dependent on how many children.

So imagine this scenario John/Mary is a UK citizen. They meet Cassandra/William who are US citizens. None of the parties have any children. Both Cassandra and William are lawyers in the USA and have actually been qualified to practice law in the UK. Trouble is John/Mary only earn 17, 000 a year. So couldn't sponsor their spouse.

Now John/Mary meet Tatiana/Sergei who are both lap dancers in Latvia so John?Mary could sponsor their spouse.

Makes absolute perfect ****ing sense to me.
Yep and someone with a Japanese spouse, it's annoyed me greatly over the years.

Despite being educated here, she was forced to provide proof of her language ability, work prospects, register a full biometric profile and take a test in Britishness. Whereas a Latvian with an Iraqi spouse, neither of whom with any English skills or prospects, can literally just show up and claim residence under EU law.

It's nonsense and that's before we get into the obscene costs associated with it all.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:27 pm
  #27185  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It is not illegal for an asylum seeker to make their way to Europe.
So you're claiming it isn't illegal for someone to enter Europe without any documentation or permission and at an unofficial border point?

And then you accuse me of lacking knowledge when it comes to the law?
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:43 pm
  #27186  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Yes it does and I know because I've been subject to them. It's one of the reasons I get quite angry when people abuse the system.

Presently EU sponsors in the UK actually get a far easier time when sponsoring their non-EU partners than the British do.

The spousal/dependent sponsorship rules for UK citizens seem harsh but at the same time they make sense for a country like the UK where public services play such a major role.
Does not make any sense whatsoever to try to impose restrictions on British citizens that are not imposed on EU citizens- if government wishes to save money they can do so in other ways. As far as I know it is not an EU requirement that the UK imposes restrictions on UK citizens wishing to bring in spouses.

The people who may be considered to abuse the system are just doing the best for their family, the people at fault are those who set up and maintain the system in the first place. People in developing countries all over the world understandably want a visa for first world countries and if easier to claim refugee status or cross a border illegally, they do so- just as we would probably do the same under similar circumstances.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:46 pm
  #27187  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
So you're claiming it isn't illegal for someone to enter Europe without any documentation or permission and at an unofficial border point?

And then you accuse me of lacking knowledge when it comes to the law?
While it may in the legal sense be illegal to enter a country this way there is something called the 1951 UN Convention and 1967 Protocol regarding refugee claimants who do this. Those who make a refugee claim this way are not prosecuted for entering the country illegally but normally reported for being an Immigrant without a visa which is not a criminal offence.
UNHCR - Refugee Protection: A Guide to International Refugee Law (Handbook for Parliamentarians)
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 2:54 pm
  #27188  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
So you're claiming it isn't illegal for someone to enter Europe without any documentation or permission and at an unofficial border point?

And then you accuse me of lacking knowledge when it comes to the law?
You can't even follow your own end of the discussion any more.

You said they were "illegally making their way to Europe", which is what I was responding to. There is nothing illegal about their passage to Europe.

Nor, as you have claimed, is it a criminal offence for someone intending to claim asylum to enter a country by whatever means available to them.

In fact, now that you've raised the issue in a wider context, you might as well inform yourself that it isn't a criminal offence in the EU at all, whether or not one is seeking asylum :
...irregular migration is not a criminal act and irregular migrants also enjoy certain rights under international law, which need to be respected
https://www.coe.int/en/web/commissio...work/migration
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 3:05 pm
  #27189  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post


just as we would probably do the same under similar circumstances.
This.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 3:06 pm
  #27190  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
You can't even follow your own end of the discussion any more.

You said they were "illegally making their way to Europe", which is what I was responding to. There is nothing illegal about their passage to Europe.

Nor, as you have claimed, is it a criminal offence for someone intending to claim asylum to enter a country by whatever means available to them.

In fact, now that you've raised the issue in a wider context, you might as well inform yourself that it isn't a criminal offence in the EU at all, whether or not one is seeking asylum :

https://www.coe.int/en/web/commissio...work/migration
And this.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 4:00 pm
  #27191  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Believe me, that post was me choosing my words very carefully. I doubt this forum would like it if I truly stated my feelings towards France.
Sad boy.

If you think I am going to start discussing your ridiculous ideas, you better (try to) think again. You're missing a certain intelligence to make it worthwhile.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 4:22 pm
  #27192  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
While it may in the legal sense be illegal to enter a country this way there is something called the 1951 UN Convention and 1967 Protocol regarding refugee claimants who do this. Those who make a refugee claim this way are not prosecuted for entering the country illegally but normally reported for being an Immigrant without a visa which is not a criminal offence.
UNHCR¬ - Refugee Protection: A Guide to International Refugee Law (Handbook for Parliamentarians)
Depends on the jurisdiction surely? I know Japan and South Korea treat immigration violations as a criminal act and some overstayers and illegal entrants found in Japan have faced jail time prior to deportation, depending on the severity of the defence.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 4:23 pm
  #27193  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Sad boy.

If you think I am going to start discussing your ridiculous ideas, you better (try to) think again. You're missing a certain intelligence to make it worthwhile.
Tell your country to stop taking the piss and then I'll have far fewer problems with it.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 4:25 pm
  #27194  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
You can't even follow your own end of the discussion any more.

You said they were "illegally making their way to Europe", which is what I was responding to. There is nothing illegal about their passage to Europe.

Nor, as you have claimed, is it a criminal offence for someone intending to claim asylum to enter a country by whatever means available to them.

In fact, now that you've raised the issue in a wider context, you might as well inform yourself that it isn't a criminal offence in the EU at all, whether or not one is seeking asylum :

https://www.coe.int/en/web/commissio...work/migration
So why is that those found entering Canada via unauthorised parts of the US border are arrested before being processed?

Maybe the EU just has this all wrong.
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Old Jan 20th 2018, 4:33 pm
  #27195  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Yes it does and I know because I've been subject to them. It's one of the reasons I get quite angry when people abuse the system.

Presently EU sponsors in the UK actually get a far easier time when sponsoring their non-EU partners than the British do.

The spousal/dependent sponsorship rules for UK citizens seem harsh but at the same time they make sense for a country like the UK where public services play such a major role.
And the only reason for that Is that the UK government chose not to give certain EU rights to Brits unless they'd lived and worked in another eu member for a minimum of 3 calendar months + 1 day. This is part of how Surinder Singh case law came to be.

Since then, many couples have legally moved to EU countries together under EU law and returned to the UK under the Singh ruling.

The UK government then changed the UK immigration rules to be able to claim doing this was to 'circumvent immigration rules'. Most cases have been won on appeal by the applicants, but whether the UK is breaching EU law really needs to be tested at a higher level than an immigration tribunal.
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