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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Annetje Jan 16th 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12420209)
:eek: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?????

Can we blame his age and hope his mum returns soon from holiday ? :starsmile:

Lion in Winter Jan 16th 2018 5:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12420209)
:eek: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa?????

Cross ref the post where DG describes the leftist program as everybody getting free stuff from the rich until the rich leave and there's nobody to pay for it any more.

I assume that is now the situation in Germany?

Garbatellamike Jan 16th 2018 5:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12420200)
That's not what I meant at all although I'd say it's a stretch to argue that Germany is much more successful than the UK.

I know Germany is the leftist paradise of the hour though so that might be an unpopular viewpoint at the moment.

Far from it Germany was the biggest opponent of the leftist nutters in the Greek government and I think you'll find Merkel is a conservative....

amideislas Jan 16th 2018 5:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12420150)
I didn't even need to hover my mouse over that link to figure out that The Guardian published it. It has their brand written all over it.

Actually, the guardian publishes quite a bit of fact-based narratives.

Compare that, for example, to their substantially more consumed competition; Daily Mail, Express, Sun. All three lead the pack in forced retractions and low credibility (not to mention just generally anti-everything propaganda much like RT, but not quite as good at it), generally hidden at the bottom of page 4 or so.

amideislas Jan 16th 2018 5:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12420223)
Far from it Germany was the biggest opponent of the leftist nutters in the Greek government and I think you'll find Merkel is a conservative....

And substantially more successful than the UK. They just don't feel the need to tell everyone how great they are.

The Germans have a saying, translated it's something like this:

If you have it, they will know.

The morale is:
If you have to tell everyone you're successful, then you probably aren't as successful as you think.

Garbatellamike Jan 16th 2018 5:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12420234)
And substantially more successful than the UK. They just don't feel the need to tell everyone how great they are.

The Germans have a saying, translated it's something like this:

If you have it, they will know.

The morale is:
If you have to tell everyone you're successful, then you probably aren't as successful as you think.

yep sort of makes the Germans the polar opposite of the Swedish

DaveLovesDee Jan 16th 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12420200)
That's not what I meant at all

Then maybe you should clearly say exactly what you mean.... Preferably using facts, and links to support your assertions. I've already proven your claims wrong twice in 2 days on another thread.


although I'd say it's a stretch to argue that Germany is much more successful than the UK.
Is it though? Which benchmark would you like me to use?


I know Germany is the leftist paradise of the hour though so that might be an unpopular viewpoint at the moment.
Leftist paradise? You really like labelling things you don't understand, don't you?

Germany is probably the most successful of the EU member states, which is probably why many on the Leave side keep claiming Merkel runs the EU. The UK could have played a leading part in the EEC and EU (and we were blocked from joining twice by De Gaulle because he thought we would usurp France's position) but chose to take what they could and give only what they had to.

UK government policies have been responsible for the UK's position and Germany's responsible for their country's position. Had it been the EU's fault, both countries would be doing similarly badly or similarly well. Leaving the EU is not going to change the UK's position v Germany other than put trading blocks in the way.

DaveLovesDee Jan 16th 2018 5:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12420234)
The morale is:
If you have to tell everyone you're successful, then you probably aren't as successful as you think.

Someone should tell Trump. :p

la mancha Jan 16th 2018 5:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12419756)
I don't get it. If immigration depresses wages how come wages are higher in Germany? Germany has had a high immigration for decades.

I did not say immigration depresses wages. I said unskilled EU member state workers flooding the UK depress our low paid wages. And you are comparing Jersey potato picking wages to unskilled wages in Germany. Think about it.

la mancha Jan 16th 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12419838)
I think you understand it very well. You have countered it with this :


You have long claimed that the over-supply of labour is what keeps wages low in unskilled work and that reducing the size of the labour pool will in itself push wages up.

Jersey is currently not over-supplied with labour for one of its main sectors, therefore wages should be rising (possibly to the point where local Jersey people are prepared to take the work? Certainly to the point where the previous takers would be tempted).

Fair enough. It won't happen in a day but how much do you expect pay for low skilled work to rise and how long will it take once we stop importing cheap labour? I notice you're now adding in that firms could go out of business, which I don't remember in your previous summaries. And of course, there's the third alternative, ie that cheap labour will still be imported one way or another, even if the labourers aren't counted in the immigration stats.

But wages are rising for low-skilled British workers. I am talking to people who are experiencing it. That is the problem on this thread: On here I am talking to people who live in another country and do not know the reality of what is happening here.

If Jersey produce businesses cannot attract workers on a low wage they will have to raise wages or go out of business. If a business cannot pay a decent wage they should not be in business. But, as was said by a Jersey producer, it is a Europe problem. How do I know how much wages should rise for low-skilled and how do I know how long it will take once we stop importing cheap labour? Every market has its own level.

I still do not know what your point is re the original Guardian article.

DaveLovesDee Jan 16th 2018 5:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12420252)
I did not say immigration depresses wages. I said unskilled EU member state workers flooding the UK depress our low paid wages. And you are comparing Jersey potato picking wages to unskilled wages in Germany. Think about it.

If EU workers moving to the UK to work isn't immigrating, what is?

amideislas Jan 16th 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12420200)

I know Germany is the leftist paradise of the hour though so that might be an unpopular viewpoint at the moment.

Leftist Paradise? Huh? Sorry, but Germany is far less "leftist" than many. If you measure that by simply social generosity, then the UK would certsinly be more "leftist" by comparison. Germany is right-leaning centrist, if anything.

You keep implying how much you know Europe, then you make statements like this, which even more strongly implies you have no idea what Europe is like. Almost like a Daily Mail / Express narrative.

Red Eric Jan 16th 2018 6:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12420150)
I didn't even need to hover my mouse over that link to figure out that The Guardian published it. It has their brand written all over it.


Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12420231)
Actually, the guardian publishes quite a bit of fact-based narratives.

Compare that, for example, to their substantially more consumed competition; Daily Mail, Express, Sun. All three lead the pack in forced retractions and low credibility (not to mention just generally anti-everything propaganda much like RT, but not quite as good at it), generally hidden at the bottom of page 4 or so.

I can only assume he mis-read the title and got "third world country" instead of "third country". Nobody who wants a "proper" Brexit could possible quibble about its probable "third country" status, surely?

Expatrick Jan 16th 2018 6:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12420213)
Can we blame his age and hope his mum returns soon from holiday ? :starsmile:

Might even get a job sometime!

Red Eric Jan 16th 2018 6:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12420255)
How do I know how much wages should rise for low-skilled and how do I know how long it will take once we stop importing cheap labour? Every market has its own level.

I don't know but it's your theory and one of your justifications for voting to leave, so I thought you might have some inkling or some sort of expectations.

Just wondering when we could look forward to discussing something based on some solid evidence rather than a bit of chit-chat with your Brexiter mates who, in their current euphoric state, believe they're experiencing an economic miracle.


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