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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Dec 26th 2017, 11:51 pm
  #25876  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes there is a difference in getting work visas for non-EU citizens.
I was replying to a post which stated it was not possible!--I pointed out non-EU citizens are doing it all the time. I know that it is not difficult if the person has a job to go to or a business visa, I personally know non-EU people who are working and also those with business partners in Germany.

Why after Brexit are you upset that EU and non-EU would be migrating to the UK on an equal basis? (The change in the previous free movement of Commonwealth citizens has not prevented them from coming just enabling controls.) The majority of countries have controls on settlement in their country, except where a very large country has free movement from a small neighbour.

I have said many times that the primacy of EU law over national law the increased powers of the ECJ is just one of my reasons for voting to Leave.
I understand that the ECJ is one of your reasons , even though that personal preference of yours really doesn't explain why all the negatives are acceptable unless here is some positive I am unaware of.

I didn't bring up nor has anyone I have ever encountered except for yourself the issue of EU and non-EU immigration on an equal basis- I couldn't care less whether non-EU citizens can come in under the same terms or not, I care about what is best for the UK. EU citizens having freedom of movement if it benefits UK with reciprocal arrangements can be considered good. I do see one negative about competition for low wage work, though I suspect if that was only issue something could be worked out with the EU. Why would I care about equality between non EU and EU ? As far as non-EU goes, if skills are necessary fine let workers in , if not then why keep letting people in at these rates for such a small island ? One can argue about what rates are sustainable and beneficial for the economy and security for that matter- but again I haven't the slightest concern nor have any Brexit voters I have met, about equality of regulations between EU and non-EU citizens.

Considering how difficult it is for the poor and working poor, I don't see how hurting the economy in any way, or reducing opportunities for the young, can be good for Britain - that is I ask why except for this emotional ECJ issue, or other emotional issues ( which I understand as I liked the old passports too) there is a benefit to the UK from Brexit ?
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Old Dec 26th 2017, 11:59 pm
  #25877  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
And I (we) don't care the rules are different for non EU people ...
Nor me. We used to have to deal with the Home Office under the immigration rules for non-EU's, but now we're under EEA rules it's much simpler and cheaper.

But we're probably leaving, so instead of paying UK taxes from 2019, we're probably going back to paying taxes in Canada again.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 10:08 am
  #25878  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1)I understand that the ECJ is one of your reasons , even though that personal preference of yours really doesn't explain why all the negatives are acceptable unless here is some positive I am unaware of.

2)I didn't bring up nor has anyone I have ever encountered except for yourself the issue of EU and non-EU immigration on an equal basis- I couldn't care less whether non-EU citizens can come in under the same terms or not, I care about what is best for the UK. EU citizens having freedom of movement if it benefits UK with reciprocal arrangements can be considered good. I do see one negative about competition for low wage work, though I suspect if that was only issue something could be worked out with the EU. Why would I care about equality between non EU and EU ? As far as non-EU goes, if skills are necessary fine let workers in ,
3)if not then why keep letting people in at these rates for such a small island ? One can argue about what rates are sustainable and beneficial for the economy and security for that matter- but again I haven't the slightest concern nor have any Brexit voters I have met, about equality of regulations between EU and non-EU citizens.

4)Considering how difficult it is for the poor and working poor, I don't see how hurting the economy in any way, or reducing opportunities for the young, can be good for Britain - that is I ask why except for this emotional ECJ issue, or other emotional issues ( which I understand as I liked the old passports too) there is a benefit to the UK from Brexit ?
1) ECJ Having primacy over National law was a major point of the Leave campaign, why would it be "personal"?
2) and 3) You are contradicting yourself "why keep letting people in at these rates for such a small island". You are advocating free movement without skills assessment but more controls on those who are all skills assessed. (This was also a point made by the official leave campaign. There are also reciprocal arrangements with non- EU contries regarding migration.
4) Non-EU economies are growing faster than the EU the future of subsequent generations is with them also we will still trade with EU countries.

(Most of the 'emotion' on this thread is coming from Remainers, we are progressing with Brexit!)
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 10:18 am
  #25879  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) ECJ Having primacy over National law was a major point of the Leave campaign, why would it be "personal"?
2) and 3) You are contradicting yourself "why keep letting people in at these rates for such a small island". You are advocating free movement without skills assessment but more controls on those who are all skills assessed. (This was also a point made by the official leave campaign. There are also reciprocal arrangements with non- EU contries regarding migration.
4) Non-EU economies are growing faster than the EU the future of subsequent generations is with them also we will still trade with EU countries.

(Most of the 'emotion' on this thread is coming from Remainers, we are progressing with Brexit!)
Please, Immigration was the central point of the campaign. Few knew or cared about the ECJ. And nobody has yet to (tangibly, factually) identify why it's "bad". And without stirring up emotional anti-foreigner sentiment, the referendum would have surely gone the other way.

With the exception of "emerging" markets, the EU is one of the world's fastest growing economies at present, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Faster than the US, and obviously significantly faster than the UK, and nobody (except British tabloid press) has been able to identify any path to post-brexit "flourishing" (as promised by leave) for the UK. But the belief makes people feel better, which is pretty much just an emotion.

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 27th 2017 at 10:23 am.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 10:30 am
  #25880  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
As you might have divined, I'm not a brexiteer. But your point reminds me of a chance encounter I had with a Scottish person on the day after the referendum.

Assuming he was sane, I shared my opinion that the result was a disaster for all of the UK, but he "told" me that the Scottish fishing industry was being destroyed by EU regulations and that EU trawlers could fish in UK coastal waters while UK trawlers couldn't fish outside them.

I asked, are you sure that's true? And he replied "it's true in Scotland".

<shook head and walked away>
I am afraid your friend mislead you.
For example 84% of the North Sea Haddock quota is allocated to the UK and UK waters represent the most extensive marine zone within the EU.
UK quotas represent 30% of the total EU quota.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 10:34 am
  #25881  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Please, Immigration was the central point of the campaign. Few knew or cared about the ECJ. And nobody has yet to (tangibly, factually) identify why it's "bad". And without stirring up emotional anti-foreigner sentiment, the referendum would have surely gone the other way.

With the exception of "emerging" markets, the EU is one of the world's fastest growing economies at present, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Faster than the US, and obviously significantly faster than the UK, and nobody (except British tabloid press) has been able to identify any path to post-brexit "flourishing" (as promised by leave) for the UK. But the belief makes people feel better.
So 'letting people in at these rates" see above post is not 'emotional anti-foreigner' by Remainer?
What you call "emerging" markets are the world's largest fastest growing economies and the Uk has close connections with them also, they are the future.
Brexit does not mean cutting off all trade and migration between the UK and EU countries!
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 11:31 am
  #25882  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) ECJ Having primacy over National law was a major point of the Leave campaign, why would it be "personal"?
2) and 3) You are contradicting yourself "why keep letting people in at these rates for such a small island". You are advocating free movement without skills assessment but more controls on those who are all skills assessed. (This was also a point made by the official leave campaign. There are also reciprocal arrangements with non- EU contries regarding migration.
4) Non-EU economies are growing faster than the EU the future of subsequent generations is with them also we will still trade with EU countries.

(Most of the 'emotion' on this thread is coming from Remainers, we are progressing with Brexit!)
Your memory is slipping, it was the 350million pound bus slogan and immigration that vote leave focussed on.
All you need to do is to go back to its site.
When it comes to trade you still do not seem to understand that all that matters is the volume of trade, not growth rates or past historical relationships with countries that only yesterday you accused us of robbing and exploiting.
Yes brexit is going ahead but the fokrm it finally takes will disappoint many if not the majority of brexit voters.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 11:57 am
  #25883  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Lest we forget the climate of a year or so ago, as we hurry to clean up our memories of what the Leave themes really were and how they were used.



Source: What mattered most to you when deciding how to vote in the EU referendum? By Chris Prosser, Jon Mellon, and Jane Green - The British Election Study



And:

EU referendum: The words used most by Brexit and Remain camps - and what they say about the campaigns | The Independent

A quick google reveals these, so I'm sure there is more. I didn't bother with the tabloid front pages, etc - these are words and themes used or identified by actual people.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 12:26 pm
  #25884  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Most people voted in a gut reaction in the absence of real information or leadership..... and have spent the last months justifying their decision.

It really doesn't matter as the die is cast and what really matters is how the UK can walk away from this with the minimum damage.

Time will tell whether the decision was as good as the Brexiteers claim or as bad as the Remainers fear, because crystal balls are in short supply.

Unfortunately, I have little confidence in the intention or ability of those negotiating to do the best for me.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 12:57 pm
  #25885  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Most people voted in a gut reaction in the absence of real information or leadership..... and have spent the last months justifying their decision.

It really doesn't matter as the die is cast and what really matters is how the UK can walk away from this with the minimum damage.

Time will tell whether the decision was as good as the Brexiteers claim or as bad as the Remainers fear, because crystal balls are in short supply.

Unfortunately, I have little confidence in the intention or ability of those negotiating to do the best for me.
Or, indeed, balls of any variety, since the outset.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 1:09 pm
  #25886  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Please, Immigration was the central point of the campaign. Few knew or cared about the ECJ. And nobody has yet to (tangibly, factually) identify why it's "bad". And without stirring up emotional anti-foreigner sentiment, the referendum would have surely gone the other way.

With the exception of "emerging" markets, the EU is one of the world's fastest growing economies at present, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Faster than the US, and obviously significantly faster than the UK, and nobody (except British tabloid press) has been able to identify any path to post-brexit "flourishing" (as promised by leave) for the UK. But the belief makes people feel better, which is pretty much just an emotion.

Ita frankly stunning to me that these myths persist in the face of all the recent evidence telling people, in stark terms, that they were deliberately lied too. Instead of continually quoting these lies,people would do well to go away and actually find out for themselves what actually went on in the 'referendum'
No 1 on the list would be to understand the 'hidden agenda' of those in power who pressed to leave the EU..Once that is understood,perhaps everything else would fall into place..Eyes would be opened,and the importance of the average citizen's wishes put in their real place. i.e. of zero importance
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 1:11 pm
  #25887  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Mmmm, mince pies ... don't have those in France
... Fortnum & Mason's Christmas overseas hamper...doesn't everyone? Today's treat is their Special Luxury Christmas Pudding (with premium fruit) and, with full pot of extra creamy warm Brandy-Butter...
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 1:13 pm
  #25888  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

World's fastest growing economy is Ethiopia.
So what are we worrying about ,brexit will be a success all we need is a trade agreement with them.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 1:18 pm
  #25889  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
So 'letting people in at these rates" see above post is not 'emotional anti-foreigner' by Remainer?
What you call "emerging" markets are the world's largest fastest growing economies and the Uk has close connections with them also, they are the future.
Brexit does not mean cutting off all trade and migration between the UK and EU countries!
And what does trading with emerging economies has to do with Brexit. I said this many times but you just seem to give a humungous amount of ****: Germany is the export country no. 1 and has, does and will trade extensively with all countries on this ****ing earth, that includes India but doesn't end there. Being a member of the EU doesn't mean that you can't trade with the bloody world nor does it mean that you lose out and belong to the past nor does it mean that you are not globalized nor does it mean that you are frightened of the world. Stop your one-sided views. It is unbearable.

Last edited by Assanah; Dec 27th 2017 at 1:20 pm.
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Old Dec 27th 2017, 1:19 pm
  #25890  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
... Fortnum & Mason's Christmas overseas hamper...doesn't everyone? Today's treat is their Special Luxury Christmas Pudding (with premium fruit) and, with full pot of extra creamy warm Brandy-Butter...

You're one of them bloody elites, aren't you, with your Fortnum's goods.

We had the Christmas pudding of The People from M&S and made our own mince pies with Robertson's mince and our own brandy butter.
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