British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Dec 19th 2017 5:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12402257)
Yes. If it's worth doing it's worth doing properly.

Well, for the long term, it's really the only option. But it will require a very different structure, one that simply cannot exist as things are, because it's not yet a federal republic. That's why it will need to change.

But the infrastructure is already (mostly) in place, and those who understand it have known this all along. It's down to individual member States agreeing on sharing sovereignty. And that's a political, not a practical barrier.

There are some who realise that a Europe as a bonafide state would be quite powerful, and that's pretty intimidating for some. But this is just nationalist ideology. Has little to do with practicality.

In Britain's case, the wisest thing it could have ever done is to champion it while being transparent to its desire to stay to moved from it (as Churchill envisioned). Then Britain could have remained a key partner to the world's largest economy while not being part of it (if that's what it really wants).

But no, apparently the overriding wisdom was to demonise its most important trading partner, openly wishing for its demise, making it the enemy. Brilliant.

Garbatellamike Dec 19th 2017 5:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12402267)
Well, for the long term, it's really the only option. But it will require a very different structure, one that simply cannot exist as things are, because it's not yet a federal republic. That's why it will need to change.

But the infrastructure is already (mostly) in place, and those who understand it have known this all along. It's down to individual member States agreeing on sharing sovereignty. And that's a political, not a practical barrier.

There are some who realise that a Europe as a bonafide state would be quite powerful, and that's pretty intimidating for some. But this is just nationalist ideology. Has little to do with practicality.

In Britain's case, the wisest thing it could have ever done is to champion it while being transparent to its desire to stay to moved from it (as Churchill envisioned). Then Britain could have remained a key partner to the world's largest economy while not being part of it (if that's what it really wants).

But no, apparently the overriding wisdom was to demonise its most important trading partner, openly wishing for its demise, making it the enemy. Brilliant.

I think that's true but don't forget the de Gaulle factor, if he hadn't been so obstructive UK could have been in at the beginning and thinfs would have turned out differently.

Annetje Dec 19th 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
May still wanting her cake and eat it, whilst also enjoying the EU's one :rofl:

Very sad though that 1,5 years after voting for Brexit, May and her smurfs finally had a meeting about what they want ... It lasted a whole hour and 45 minutes (!!!) and all came out again (meaning nobody got killed in the process).
Can anyone tell me what May's famous ''Plan'' was ? She has been saying all this time that she has a ''Plan'' and I'm still in the dark what it was (apart from the cake-bit).

Theresa May hits back at EU over bespoke Brexit deal | The Independent

Red Eric Dec 19th 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12402219)
Try again, I'm sure you can do better ;)

I can.

The entire tenure of José Manuel Durão Barroso as President of the Commission and most especially its culminating in him becoming non-executive chairman at Goldman Sachs shortly after his term of office ended.

https://corporateeurope.org/revolvin...gerous-liaison

Garbatellamike Dec 19th 2017 5:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12402275)
May still wanting her cake and eat it, whilst also enjoying the EU's one :rofl:

Very sad though that 1,5 years after voting for Brexit, May and her smurfs finally had a meeting about what they want ... It lasted a whole hour and 45 minutes (!!!) and all came out again (meaning nobody got killed in the process).
Can anyone tell me what May's famous ''Plan'' was ? She has been saying all this time that she has a ''Plan'' and I'm still in the dark what it was (apart from the cake-bit).

Theresa May hits back at EU over bespoke Brexit deal | The Independent

Let me have a go - there is no plan because Cameron, Osborne et al were so sure of their brilliance that they didn't think they'd lose the referendum?

Don't know only guessing ;)

EMR Dec 19th 2017 5:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12402280)
Let me have a go - there is no plan because Cameron, Osborne et al were so sure of their brilliance that they didn't think they'd lose the referendum?

Don't know only guessing ;)

Why would they plan for a future outside of the EU.
It's leavers who are responsible for what ever happens, not those who wanted the UK to remain.

amideislas Dec 19th 2017 5:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12402280)
Let me have a go - there is no plan because Cameron, Osborne et al were so sure of their brilliance that they didn't think they'd lose the referendum?

Don't know only guessing ;)

If it weren't for the well known leave lies, remain would have surely won. I don't think anyone could have, or did predict that. It was quite a shock to everyone when the result was announced. Even farage didn't expect it.

Garbatellamike Dec 19th 2017 5:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12402288)
If it weren't for the well known leave lies, remain would have surely won. I don't think anyone could have, or did predict that. It was quite a shock to everyone when the result was announced. Even farage didn't expect it.

I agree but I also tend to think a more positive campaign from Remain might also have won. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I heard the result as my flabber was well and truely gasted.

Richard8655 Dec 19th 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12402288)
If it weren't for the well known leave lies, remain would have surely won. I don't think anyone could have, or did predict that. It was quite a shock to everyone when the result was announced. Even farage didn't expect it.

And I always thought Americans were the most guillible in the western world (i.e., Trump will protect workers). I should have known better after seeing the British tabloids perpetuate pro-Brexit deceptions and distortions with readers eagerly responding.

la mancha Dec 19th 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12402288)
If it weren't for the well known leave lies, remain would have surely won. I don't think anyone could have, or did predict that. It was quite a shock to everyone when the result was announced. Even farage didn't expect it.

You mean if it weren't for the well known Remain lies, Remain would have walked it.

Bipat Dec 19th 2017 6:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I decided that leaving would be a good idea circa 2000.

EMR Dec 19th 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12402296)
You mean if it weren't for the well known Remain lies, Remain would have walked it.

Let's agree that " project fear " was a mistake but as it is turning out " project its starting to look like we were right " would be a better description.
When it comes to blatant lies , quasi racism and outright misinformation the total spectrum of the leave side is in a universe of its own.

Garbatellamike Dec 19th 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Richard8655 (Post 12402295)
And I always thought Americans were the most guillible in the western world (i.e., Trump will protect workers). I should have known better after seeing the British tabloids perpetuate pro-Brexit deceptions and distortions with readers eagerly responding.

nawww the Americans still have it by a distance

amideislas Dec 19th 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12402296)
You mean if it weren't for the well known Remain lies, Remain would have walked it.

What remain lies? That the UK would suffer economically? (no link needed, it's a foregone conclusion)

Suffer a lesser influence in world politics?

Lion in Winter Dec 19th 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12402296)
You mean if it weren't for the well known Remain lies, Remain would have walked it.

Examples please?

I thought Leave won because ordinary people had had enough of the elites not understanding their lives. Now you are saying that if Remain had not lied in some way you do not specify, people would have in fact voted to stay - which is saying that the basic, factual, existing situation was actually ok, the vote only went the way it did because Remain didn't explain those facts correctly. Which is a totally different thing.


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