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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Dec 15th 2017 5:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12400348)
Hard Brexit is impossible, what is left is EEA/EFTA membership or the withdrawal of A50.

The former is more likely because it obeys "the will of the people", on one day in June last year, while the latter is more desirable.

Probably take another referendum to sort it out, though I don't think withdrawing A50 will be one of the options.

There is rapidly growing mass uncontrolled public support for a 2nd referendum - on the terms of the withdrawal - though. Now in the majority vs no more referendums, by quite some yawning margin, according to a huge body of incredibly accurate expert scientific opinion surveying.

SultanOfSwing Dec 15th 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 12400361)
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

There's nothing in there that states the referendum was about voting to leave the ECJ or free movement. Some may interpret it as such, but it's just as valid to interpret otherwise. And that really is why the referendum itself was flawed.

Watch out with those facts there, you're likely to get a ham-fisted wank word hurled in your direction.

Novocastrian Dec 15th 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12400356)
Oh, "hard Brexit" is certainly possible, but it would be very "hard" for Britain. Really disastrous. But it's certainly possible.

Impossible in the sense of being suicide. Which is a bit final for anyone who is bit sane.


Brexit, technically, means "hard" Brexit (as cape rightfully points out). But that now seems unlikely, for obvious reasons. But it never was "likely", as the damage would be politically unbearable. No Tory would survive it.
1) It doesn't. The "Will of the People" as expressed was to leave the EU. EEA/EFTA members are not part of the EU.

2) Tory suicide, of course, but also national suicide and therefore impossible. Or at least impossible to contemplate.

morpeth Dec 15th 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12400330)
They will be trying to push a LINO - Leave in Name Only - keeping us in the EU institutions that people voted to leave. When people voted Brexit they voted to leave free movement and leave ECJ controls, these remainiacs will try and vote-down a full and proper leave and instead push us towards a LINO.

I think one of the greatest possible dangers to Brexit is when all is said and done the majority of those who voted for Brexit will come to the conclusion than what they thought they were voting didn't come to pass- and that will create quite a few voters who are angry and lose all faith in the political system.

Please can someone tell me what as of now is the economic benefit to Britain of having any level of reduced access or benefits to the EU market ? Or making it harder to bring in skilled workers ? Of having to pay 50 billion or whatever the amount is to leave ? I admit I must really be missing something, as I am trying to figure out how this whole mess will benefit the UK. Or what dastardly action of the ECJ justifies slowing down UK economic growth or even causing somewhat of a decline ?

jimenato Dec 15th 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12400330)
They will be trying to push a LINO - Leave in Name Only - keeping us in the EU institutions that people voted to leave. When people voted Brexit they voted to leave free movement and leave ECJ controls, these remainiacs will try and vote-down a full and proper leave and instead push us towards a LINO.

No - they absolutely did not.

We have been reminded on numerous occasions by Brexiteers that there was only one question on the paper - Leave or Remain.

The vote was to leave - nothing more whatsoever.

The people who voted Leave for whatever many and various reasons they had for doing that, have no say whatsoever in the manner of our leaving because we can only guess at their many and varied reasons.

LINO as you call it is leaving - which was what was voted for. If that's what happens, then the Leave vote will have been fulfilled completely.

Many remainers are calling for a referendum on the outcome of the negotiations. Perhaps Leavers should join in this call so that they can have a say in what kind of Brexit they want - at the moment they have none.

amideislas Dec 15th 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12400372)
Impossible in the sense of being suicide. Which is a bit final for anyone who is bit sane.



1) It doesn't. The "Will of the People" as expressed was to leave the EU. EEA/EFTA members are not part of the EU.

2) Tory suicide, of course, but also national suicide and therefore impossible. Or at least impossible to contemplate.

Yes, but EEA/EFTA membership is essentially EU membership without a seat at the table. Same rules, but no influence. I suspect the frothy brexiteers wouldn't find that particularly palatable.

So, "free trade" agreement. Time will tell, but I suspect it too will look very much like EEA/EFTA membership. It just won't be referred to in those terms, and that could satisfy the frothy brexiteers.

Or not. Suicide is always an option...

morpeth Dec 15th 2017 5:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12400377)
No - they absolutely did not.

We have been reminded on numerous occasions by Brexiteers that there was only one question on the paper - Leave or Remain.

The vote was to leave - nothing more whatsoever.

The people who voted Leave for whatever many and various reasons they had for doing that, have no say whatsoever in the manner of our leaving because we can only guess at their many and varied reasons.

LINO as you call it is leaving - which was what was voted for. If that's what happens, then the Leave vote will have been fulfilled completely.

Many remainers are calling for a referendum on the outcome of the negotiations. Perhaps Leavers should join in this call so that they can have a say in what kind of Brexit they want - at the moment they have none.

Completely agree a referendum on type of deal would be in everyone's interest. May certainly doesn't seem to have the vision or courage to seek and implement a new referendum.

jimenato Dec 15th 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400375)
I think one of the greatest possible dangers to Brexit is when all is said and done the majority of those who voted for Brexit will come to the conclusion than what they thought they were voting didn't come to pass- and that will create quite a few voters who are angry and lose all faith in the political system.

...

They probably wouldn't be any more pissed off if we didn't leave at all.

Garbatellamike Dec 15th 2017 5:50 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400381)
Completely agree a referendum on type of deal would be in everyone's interest. May certainly doesn't seem to have the vision or courage to seek and implement a new referendum.

but if we have a legally binding vote in Parliament as per the recent amendment, why would we need another referendum?

Novocastrian Dec 15th 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12400324)
Leave means leave - no ECJ, non FOM, no SM, no CU. If we don't leave those we have not left the EU.

Then wouldn't it have been a good idea to phrase the referendum question with some passing reference to all of those things?

I repeat, there are some countries who are not EU members but who benefit from all the things you mention. But they have no input into EU policy.

I think the EU27 would prefer to get rid of the UK messing about with policy they don't understand.

Former Lancastrian Dec 15th 2017 5:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12400383)
but if we have a legally binding vote in Parliament as per the recent amendment, why would we need another referendum?

To make the Remainiacs happy on the off chance that they might actually win :rofl:

Garbatellamike Dec 15th 2017 6:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12400387)
To make the Remainiacs happy on the off chance that they might actually win :rofl:

:rofl: how silly of me of course you're right ;)

amideislas Dec 15th 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12400385)
Then wouldn't it have been a good idea to phrase the referendum question with some passing reference to all of those things?

I repeat, there are some countries who are not EU members but who benefit from all the things you mention. But they have no input into EU policy.

I think the EU27 would prefer to get rid of the UK messing about with policy they don't understand.

Bittersweet. The UK has been an obstacle to progress, so, in that way, yes, Brexit is a good thing. But it's one of the EU's largest economies, so it's a shame that ideology and arrogance won over practicality. But c'est la vie... Other shit to worry about...

Annetje Dec 15th 2017 6:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400381)
Completely agree a referendum on type of deal would be in everyone's interest. May certainly doesn't seem to have the vision or courage to seek and implement a new referendum.

No wonder, just look at the reaction of the Brexit mop on the ''traitors'',
''hang draw and quarter'' is one of the mild reactions on FB to an article in the Daily Express.

Bipat Dec 15th 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12400375)
I think one of the greatest possible dangers to Brexit is when all is said and done the majority of those who voted for Brexit will come to the conclusion than what they thought they were voting didn't come to pass- and that will create quite a few voters who are angry and lose all faith in the political system.

Please can someone tell me what as of now is the economic benefit to Britain of having any level of reduced access or benefits to the EU market ? Or making it harder to bring in skilled workers ? Of having to pay 50 billion or whatever the amount is to leave ? I admit I must really be missing something, as I am trying to figure out how this whole mess will benefit the UK. Or what dastardly action of the ECJ justifies slowing down UK economic growth or even causing somewhat of a decline ?


Morpeth You keep repeating this point about "skilled workers" --if it is so hard how does the UK manage to attract skilled workers from outside the EU, in some professions the majority are from outside the EU.
You mention the 'leave' amount --not fixed yet; have you forgotten the membership fee?


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