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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Dec 14th 2017, 8:05 pm
  #25276  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Usual vague response from you. Where have I ever said "we're all impoverished", or is this quote just more of your unsubstantiated BS?

As for there being no better time to be living in another country (why the quotation marks?), I assume you mean an EU member state?
Well, Britain with an uncertain future, all but entirely focused on the Brexit obsession, other places (not only the EU) more focused on tangible growth and improving living standards, I think it seems obvious.

And wasn't it you that just a few posts back, mentioned how we expats have no idea how bad it is in Britain? And dotted throughout this thread, you've been telling me how impoverished my patch is...

Or is it not one of your "we're all impoverished" days? Boom times today, is it? (well, for Britain anyway. Those "foreign" places will always be substandard, eh?).

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 14th 2017 at 8:19 pm.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 8:20 pm
  #25277  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
A question though : if Brexit voters who had a particular issue in mind, say 2/3, were told specifically they would get no progress on that issue, but there may be some negative economic results from Brexit, would they still be in favor of Brexit today ?

And it isn't just low paid jobs : recently I was around some skilled workers at a biomass project, fellows were making good money- majority voted for Brexit and the majority of those complained about East European workers offering to do work for less, so they had to work further afield form their homes to get the rates they felt they deserved. Just anecdotal evidence, but make some wonder what percentage of East European workers ae in lower paid jobs and what percentage in higher paid jobs ?
Yes.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 8:39 pm
  #25278  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well, Britain with an uncertain future, all but entirely focused on the Brexit obsession, other places (not only the EU) more focused on tangible growth and improving living standards, I think it seems obvious.

And wasn't it you that just a few posts back, mentioned how we expats have no idea how bad it is in Britain? And dotted throughout this thread, you've been telling me how impoverished my patch is...

Or is it not one of your "we're all impoverished" days? Boom times today, is it? (well, for Britain anyway. Those "foreign" places will always be substandard, eh?).
Four out of the top five nations in the developed world with the highest rate of unemployment are in the EU. Improving living standards? What BS are you telling me?

I never said expats have no idea how bad it is in Britain. I said expats had no idea of anything Brexit in Britain. I never said how impoverished your patch is. I may have mentioned a while back in the summer that a school on your patch had the kids going out onto the streets to collect cardboard boxes to flatten and put up against the windows in the school as a sun shield because the local authorities had no money to put in place window blinds, things like that, but not impoverished. I leave everyone to make up their own minds about that.

I see unemployment on the Balearics went up 12,586 in November.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 8:49 pm
  #25279  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Yes.
Who would the continue to blame, immigrants and the EU as they always have done.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 8:50 pm
  #25280  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Bipat this is so simple. Right now it is fairly easy to find and bring in skilled workers from Europe, Brexit negotiations depending how they are handled, could result in it becoming more cumbersome. I have asked several times, how is it a benefit to make it more cumbersome to bring in skilled workers when needed ?

On the trade deals perhaps I haven't explained clearly enough. First tariffs are not the only issue restraining trade growth, finance terms, quality, logistics, competition, etc all have a role to play. Just having a trade deal doesn't magically create extra volume of trade necessarily Second ANY benefit the UK gains if in purely economic terms , certainly the EU if it wishes will get the same terms as it is a bigger market- so UK at that point doesn't get as much advantage as it might seem. It is at this point sheer wishful thinking that trade with developing countries form new trade deals will exceed any trade lost because of Brexit - if there has been any unbiased serious study of this issue I admit I haven't seen. I doubt anyone else has either.

Someone else can answer better than I , but surely if there is an end to freedom of movement or severe restrictions, the Europeans wont come as they have always come- if that is the case what is the concern of some about freedom of movement ? Doesn't make sense.

As I said I can understand someone being for Brexit from emotional or patriotic reasons, I just am having difficulty when no one seems to be able to point out how it will address some of the key concerns of different segments of those who voted for Brexit, let alone any concrete indication of the economic benefits of establishing more distance/complication in trading with the EU.
Morpeth just three points --it is just as easy to bring in skilled workers from Non- EU countries as well as the EU countries. The majority of NHS workers as one example are from outside the EU.

Again you go one about "developing" countries! Third highest investor in the UK, second highest job creator in UK ----"developing"? China and India will be the world largest economies. I would think all countries are "developing", they all seek to improve.

Why do you think the end of 'free movement' will result in "severe" restrictions?
As others have pointed out Non-EU migrants have continued to come even though their 'free movement' ended.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:21 pm
  #25281  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
They don't seem to be as single-minded about it as you seem to suppose :

Majority of Brexiters would swap free movement for EU market access

...which suggests that the overwhelming majority would be happy as long as EU migrants are working, no matter in what numbers. And that they don't want a hard Brexit.

You're in quite a small minority there, although I expect you'll be straight back to tell me how unreliable the poll and the paper that quotes it are
Most people haven't put as much thought and research into it as I have.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:29 pm
  #25282  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I've never accepted a job paying lower wages, despite the best efforts of job centres trying to convince me otherwise. I have to pay for training and licensing to do my job, so don't expect to have to work for minimum wage doing that job.

You'll find employers dictate the pay rate, and employees either have to accept it or or look elsewhere. But many low-skilled jobs are zero-hour or part-time these days, so people still have to rely on tax credits to make ends meet. Brexit will not change this.



People have always moved from smaller towns to larger cities to find work. Did those inhabitants of the larger cities hate the newcomers for stealing their jobs? Probably in some cases, but if an uneducated migrant worker is able to take your job, maybe they're not the problem.

If employers are paying anyone less than the minimum wage, then those employers should be shut down.
If you are a nuclear scientist, can your employer "dictate" £7.50 per hour? Sure, they can try, but they won't get any takers. The reality is that the wage of any particular job is a dance between the desires of the employer and employee - adding millions of keen employees who are willing to work for low wages and underhouse themselves to do so, gives more bargaining power to the employer and helps them hold down wages. It can do nothing else.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:31 pm
  #25283  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Going back to the biased survey you posted, you are telling me, if as you Remoaners...
Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
... say, all the racists and xenophobes, the knuckle-draggers and the uneducated who voted Leave, they are all in pubs and sitting in cafes and in their workplaces and at supermarket checkouts, on the trains and the buses going into work in their low-paid jobs, and they suddenly turn round and say, ‘Hey, I would definitely change my mind about Brexit with a trade-off of free movement for single market access, wouldn’t you?’, and everyone around them nods in agreement. Is that what you are telling me?
No.

And it's not very nice of you to refer to your fellow voters in those terms.

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
And I repeat, I did not say ‘Best For Britain, a pressure group opposed to hard Brexit commissioned the report’; the Guardian did. If you don’t like it take it up with them.
I know who commissioned the research and at least one source which published it, thanks. I not only read the article and understood it, I also posted the link for you. Of course Î have no problem with the Guardian revealing who was behind it etc - it's the least I'd expect and where a lot of other "news" sites fall short, I'm afraid.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:32 pm
  #25284  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Off you think it's leaning towards the left , well words fail me.
Your views have been voiced by others for decades, long before EU migrants arrived in numbers.
When , If , EU numbers fall and nothing changes the target will be non EU migrants.
My "target" isn't EU migrants or non-EU migrants, it is consistent mass migration over the past 20 years that I believe is now causing more cons than pros.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:33 pm
  #25285  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Most people haven't put as much thought and research into it as I have.
Oh, well.

At least you admit you're in a small minority, unlike your pal
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 9:43 pm
  #25286  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Oh, well.

At least you admit you're in a small minority, unlike your pal
Actually my anecdotal experience is just the same, UK workers choosing no to free movement over the single market.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 10:09 pm
  #25287  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Actually my anecdotal experience is just the same, UK workers choosing no to free movement over the single market.
I've been away offline for a couple of days. Of course your anecdotal evidence is very important. Feel proud of yourself to have gathered it, but please at the same time begin to reconcile yourself to the reality that Brexit ain't gonna happen Blue.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 10:14 pm
  #25288  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I've been away offline for a couple of days. Of course your anecdotal evidence is very important. Feel proud of yourself to have gathered it, but please at the same time begin to reconcile yourself to the reality that Brexit ain't gonna happen Blue.
Morpeth mentioned some anecdotal experience and I merely suggested mine was similar.

Why do you remainiacs feel the need to be so petty and bitchy the whole time? I didn't suggest my anecdotal experience was important, I even signaled it was just anecdotal.

You guys spend you whole time in petty ad-hominem attacks, calling those who don't agree with you racists, pulling up juvenile grammar issues and so-on.

I guess it must just be part of being on the losing side of history and unable to come to terms with it. Just like your cousins the brexit swivel eyed loons before the referendum.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 10:34 pm
  #25289  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Morpeth just three points --it is just as easy to bring in skilled workers from Non- EU countries as well as the EU countries. The majority of NHS workers as one example are from outside the EU.

Again you go one about "developing" countries! Third highest investor in the UK, second highest job creator in UK ----"developing"? China and India will be the world largest economies. I would think all countries are "developing", they all seek to improve.

Why do you think the end of 'free movement' will result in "severe" restrictions?
As others have pointed out Non-EU migrants have continued to come even though their 'free movement' ended.
I guess there is something I am not grasping. Doesn't a potential worker form a non-EU country need a visa to work in Britain ? Right now if I want an IT person who is in France to come for an interview and I want him to start work immediately, all that can be worked out quickly and a minimum of fuss, and expense of the interview. Isn't it a longer and more expensive flight from your country, and is a work visa something that is granted in a week ?

- I may be wrong and willing to be corrected, but how can it be just as easy to bring in a non-EU worker than an EU worker, if it is as you say just as easy the why would anyone be concerned about the freedom of movement issue?

I still waiting to understand why making it more cumbersome to bring in skilled workers from the EU, and a bit less desirable if they have to follow what non-EU workers have to follow, how on earth is that beneficial to Britain ?

You seem offended and overly sensitive to use of the label developing countries, as previously you were by the label third world, it is just a term of convenience- is there some more PC acceptable word ?

Perhaps my wording could have been better- if the current freedom of movement ended, and EU citizens have to follow the procedures of non-EU citizens, that seems to me a big change even severe. Maybe severe not the best word- but still the issue in terms of skilled workers why would anyone wish to make it more difficult than now to bring in such workers ?

Last edited by morpeth; Dec 14th 2017 at 10:43 pm.
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Old Dec 14th 2017, 10:41 pm
  #25290  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Yes.
I have to admit that surprises me- I would thought if I told someone that they would receive none of the results they wanted, and the economy would suffer from Brexit that perhaps a fair amount of people who voted for Brexit would have second thoughts. So emotion or nationalism the main driving force for most Brexit voters ?

Don't get me wrong, I didn't vote for or against Brexit, but I am fascinated that I cant seem to find any opinion about how it will benefit the poor and working poor of Britain or help the NHS, through real economic growth from leaving the EU.
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