British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

paulry Sep 5th 2016 11:32 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Editha (Post 12044005)
Surprise surprise. Points systems are used by countries that want to encourage immigration. If we adopted a similar system to Australia, immigration would probably go up. I guess Bipat is going to be disappointed, but she was warned repeatedly on this thread that her expectations were pie in the sky.

:rofl: Seriously, you surely don't really believe that rubbish? Points systems are used by countries to make sure that only the very best immigrants possessing skills in demand who will truly benefit the country obtain visas. Typically alongside points systems come annual quotas. Once the quota has been reached no more visas are granted until the next year begins. All these are attributes of well managed immigration.

jimenato Sep 5th 2016 11:33 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I can see what's happening/going to happen.

The 'promises' will become more and more diluted but the Brexiteers will be OK with this and simply reschedule their expectations as the leave vote simply can't have been wrong.

Whatever is now done will be fine as it is a result of that vote - so it must be fine.

mfesharne Sep 5th 2016 11:50 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

:)

Red Eric Sep 5th 2016 12:51 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12044035)
British people were retiring to countries in Europe for centuries before the EU project was born and they will continue to do so after it's dead and buried.

Selling our country down the river is without a doubt a price too high to pay for enabling less well off people the right to retire on the continent.

If that is your belief, why bother lying in the first place by saying that most British people will qualify for retirement visas?

Sure, wealthy people have always been welcome to settle where they want. You and others on here talk about a "fairer" system for migrants. You can't get much fairer than the arrangements within the EU as far as settling abroad in retirement are concerned. Turning those into a Fat Wallet Visa isn't "fair" at all.

Bipat Sep 5th 2016 1:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Editha (Post 12044058)
So what is your opinion of May's statement that EU citizens may still get preferential treatment?

(No personal issues). It depends what preferential treatment means.
If there was a great difference between rules for EU and non EU migrants I think it would affect future trade agreements with non EU countries.

Lion in Winter Sep 5th 2016 1:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12044129)
If that is your belief, why bother lying in the first place by saying that most British people will qualify for retirement visas?

Sure, wealthy people have always been welcome to settle where they want. You and others on here talk about a "fairer" system for migrants. You can't get much fairer than the arrangements within the EU as far as settling abroad in retirement are concerned. Turning those into a Fat Wallet Visa isn't "fair" at all.

Some of our more strident anti-EU BE voices appear to own property and hold assets in more than one country. "You can come in if you're like us" but otherwise you're just a "migrant". Such levels of wealth are certainly beyond my reach. Bloody elites, eh?

So many immigration "control" systems are just about managing cheap labour where we want it. They are not designed to let the low-income move except as wanted by businesses. Australia, like many countries, outsources its cheap labour to Asia. The US does the same, and also colludes in letting cheap farmworkers and meatpackers and cleaners in ("illegally") while keeping up the anti-immigrant rhetoric.

What could possibly be fairer than a group of countries agreeing to let their citizens work, travel and live together? What could make more sense than said group of nations collaborating to resolve common problems? Wait, I know - let's all hunker down behind the fences of our little nation states and continue to struggle against each other for another thousand years. After all, that has served us so well in the past.

Lion in Winter Sep 5th 2016 1:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12044064)
I can see what's happening/going to happen.

The 'promises' will become more and more diluted but the Brexiteers will be OK with this and simply reschedule their expectations as the leave vote simply can't have been wrong.
.

Because they WON!!!!!

Whatever happens was what they wanted and knew would happen all along!!!

Bipat Sep 5th 2016 1:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12044150)
Some of our more strident anti-EU BE voices appear to own property and hold assets in more than one country. "You can come in if you're like us" but otherwise you're just a "migrant". Such levels of wealth are certainly beyond my reach. Bloody elites, eh?

So many immigration "control" systems are just about managing cheap labour where we want it. They are not designed to let the low-income move except as wanted by businesses. Australia, like many countries, outsources its cheap labour to Asia. The US does the same, and also colludes in letting cheap farmworkers and meatpackers and cleaners in while keeping up the anti-immigrant rhetoric.

What could possibly be fairer than a group of countries agreeing to let their citizens work, travel and live together? What could make more sense than said group of nations collaborating to resolve common problems? Wait, I know - let's all hunker down behind the fences of our little nation states and continue to struggle against each other for another thousand years. After all, that has served us so well in the past.

We had that before joining the EEC! The issue is the 'club' having laws which overrule our own---and the cost!! (We have discussed this at length).
Why should a country isolate its self from those world wide who have also lived worked and together with UK citizens.

If you agree with a Federal State of Europe then that is a different issue but I believe there is a majority opinion against this, which has nothing to do with immigration.

Lion in Winter Sep 5th 2016 1:54 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12044157)
We had that before joining the EEC! The issue is the 'club' having laws which overrule our own---and the cost!! (We have discussed this at length).
Why should a country isolate its self from those world wide who have also lived worked and together with UK citizens.

If you agree with a Federal State of Europe then that is a different issue but I believe there is a majority opinion against this, which has nothing to do with immigration.

In my view it has everything to do with immigration. The very word loses its meaning once you agree to free movement anong member states. The "Federal States of Europe" thing is a bit of a red herring imo, put out to frighten people and quite effectively.

And yes, the manipulation of the labour market against the less well off was cetainly there before, hence my scepticism around this brave new world of immigration control described.

mfesharne Sep 5th 2016 1:54 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
What's wrong with any country being being selective in who it allows to reside within it's borders?

Surely it's not unreasonable to want to keep out criminals, security risks & those who will be a drain on the state etc?

If not, we'd all be living in the Bahamas or similar.

Dick Dasterdly Sep 5th 2016 2:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12044165)
What's wrong with any country being being selective in who it allows to reside within it's borders?

Surely it's not unreasonable to want to keep out criminals, security risks & those who will be a drain on the state etc?

If not, we'd all be living in the Bahamas or similar.


It also makes sense to give priority to those best qualified to meet the needs of the UK regardless of where they come from.


EU doctors three times more likely to face disciplinary action for poor English than other foreign medics

Lion in Winter Sep 5th 2016 2:02 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
This entire thread may be moot anyway.

Immigration: May rejects points-based system for EU nationals - BBC News

May says "may" an awful lot, that is when she's not saying "no" to some of the principal Remain planks. Five years from now we might be looking at a distinction without a difference situation.

Lion in Winter Sep 5th 2016 2:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12044168)
It also makes sense to give priority to those best qualified to meet the needs of the UK regardless of where they come from.


EU doctors three times more likely to face disciplinary action for poor English than other foreign medics�

You've put that link up before. And last time I pointed out that the article mentions 4 EU doctors disciplined vs 10 non-EU doctors.

I also suggested that the number 4 might indicate that we all have bigger problems to worry about.

Dick Dasterdly Sep 5th 2016 2:25 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12044173)
You've put that link up before. And last time I pointed out that the article mentions 4 EU doctors disciplined vs 10 non-EU doctors.

I also suggested that the number 4 might indicate that we all have bigger problems to worry about.

It's quite relevant to the present discussion and I make no apology for repeating it.

Per capita, it's perfectly clear that there is a far greater problem with EU doctors not being proficient in English than with non EU doctors.

The RCS claims that the safety of patients is at risk from medics who cannot communicate properly and is calling for the rules to be changed during Brexit negotiations.

"Freedom of Information data from the General Medical Council showed that 29 doctors from the European Economic Area (EEA) faced allegations relating to ‘inadequate knowledge of the English language’ during 2014 and 2015.

Four doctors have since been suspended or had restrictions placed on their practice with a number of cases still to be decided by the GMC.

By comparison just 10 doctors from outside Europe faced similar allegations even though they make up more than double the number of doctors, nurses or dentists as those from the continent - 26 per cent compared with 11 per cent."

Red Eric Sep 5th 2016 2:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12044165)
What's wrong with any country being being selective in who it allows to reside within it's borders?

Surely it's not unreasonable to want to keep out criminals, security risks & those who will be a drain on the state etc?

The borders are effectively redrawn once a Union is established. Just like with the United Kingdom, for example - we don't have the Welsh or the Scots threatening to close their borders to the English.

The EU rules actually do allow for keeping out those who will be a drain on the state as well as people who are a security risk or a risk to the public.


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