British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

morpeth Dec 8th 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12396026)
It does not prevent anyone.
It's what the members agreed to including the UK.
Still unable to answer the question I see, why are others trading under the same rules able to outsell the UK.
What reason will you offer when little changes after brexit and the UK continues to lag behind despite your belief in trade agreements.

I have to agree with EMR, no one has shown how the proposed trade deals will encourage significantly more Exports than today- and simply if say the UK gains a tariff advantage here or there, certainly the EU will demand the same- and as the bigger market will get it as well. a Zero sum game except as part of the process the UK will lose some advantages accessing the EU market, one would thin.

Second, there is much talk about restrictive EU rules, and certainly there re probably hundreds if not thousands of silly rules, but (a) Europeans can sell under these rules (b) which rules when abolished will be a major factor in building British exports ? Maybe there are some, I have just not heard them expressed concisely.

Shard Dec 8th 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12396115)
I have to agree with EMR, no one has shown how the proposed trade deals will encourage significantly more Exports than today- and simply if say the UK gains a tariff advantage here or there, certainly the EU will demand the same- and as the bigger market will get it as well. a Zero sum game except as part of the process the UK will lose some advantages accessing the EU market, one would thin.

Second, there is much talk about restrictive EU rules, and certainly there re probably hundreds if not thousands of silly rules, but (a) Europeans can sell under these rules (b) which rules when abolished will be a major factor in building British exports ? Maybe there are some, I have just not heard them expressed concisely.

Spot on. The Brexiters talk as if EU membership has been a prohibition from trading elsewhere in the world which with the exception of a few agricultural products is simply not the case.

Bipat Dec 8th 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12396113)
I call them fantasy because I haven't seen the slightest shred of evidence that such deals will make up for the potential losses from leaving the EU, and second since it appears ( at least from news reports) none of the main reasons people voted for Brexit will happen, that bringing up trade deals as some magic elixir just to me seems like a fantasy.

"Bringing up" they have been discussed before the referendum --read Nigel Lawson's Chatham House speech, subsequent speeches by the official leave campaigners.
Read links regarding Commonwealth countries and others.
Read the links from the beginning of the 'other' thread.
Whether they are successful or not we will have to wait and see but they are certainly not fantasy?

None of the "main reasons" will happen??---
EU law will not be supreme to UK national law as such (one specific item of law temporarily as a consultation measure). There will not be 'free movement' of citizens from EU countries.

Garbatellamike Dec 8th 2017 3:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12396120)
Spot on. The Brexiters talk as if EU membership has been a prohibition from trading elsewhere in the world which with the exception of a few agricultural products is simply not the case.

that's very true as less than half our trade is with the EU we must be trading elsewhere. Mayhap people are confusing actual trading with making trade agreements?

Bipat Dec 8th 2017 3:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12396120)
Spot on. The Brexiters talk as if EU membership has been a prohibition from trading elsewhere in the world which with the exception of a few agricultural products is simply not the case.

They can only trade elsewhere in the world under EU rules, (for any products).

Shard Dec 8th 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12396130)
that's very true as less than half our trade is with the EU we must be trading elsewhere. Mayhap people are confusing actual trading with making trade agreements?

People don't have a clue. That's how we got into this mess. Every week on Question Time the ignorance of the general public (on matters of economics, commerce or trade) is breathtaking.

Expatrick Dec 8th 2017 3:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Meanwhile -


EU agrees biggest free trade deal with Japan
EU agrees biggest free trade deal with Japan - BBC News

amideislas Dec 8th 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12396128)

None of the "main reasons" will happen??---
EU law will not be supreme to UK national law as such (one specific item of law temporarily as a consultation measure). There will not be 'free movement' of citizens from EU countries.

There is some debate about just how "supreme" EU law actually is, yet I suppose you could argue that by treaty, it technically is, although it's clear that the UK has a lot of latitude on how it interprets that.

But I'd like to hear an explanation (in tangible examples) of how these things are "bad". So bad in fact, that it even remotely justifies all the negative consequences.

No, not your opinion. Just illustrate it with tangible examples. No daily mail/express rhetoric, please.

Novocastrian Dec 8th 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12396120)
Spot on. The Brexiters talk as if EU membership has been a prohibition from trading elsewhere in the world which with the exception of a few agricultural products is simply not the case.

+2. Moreover Brexit always was and always will be impossible without incurring an economic and political collapse of the UK, or what would be left of the UK which would likely just be England.

The "progress" made today could have been achieved in a few days rather than 18 months if it hadn't been for the silly notion of "red lines" on the single market and the customs union imposed by May' and the silly notion of entrusting the negotiation to the idiot DD, egged on by Boris and the frothers.

This ain't over yet, but it will be.

Cape Blue Dec 8th 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Crikey, it's been busy here at remainiac central.

It's gratifying to see so many posters happy at a so-called EU win over the UK - what a strange psychology must drive that joy at the UK "losing".

Annetje Dec 8th 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12396132)
They can only trade elsewhere in the world under EU rules, (for any products).

These EU rules can't be that bad since 5 EU countries are in top 10 (2016) export nations ...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

Annetje Dec 8th 2017 3:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12396159)
Crikey, it's been busy here at remainiac central.

It's gratifying to see so many posters happy at a so-called EU win over the UK - what a strange psychology must drive that joy at the UK "losing".

Who's happy ?

Cape Blue Dec 8th 2017 3:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12396139)
+2. Moreover Brexit always was and always will be impossible without incurring an economic and political collapse of the UK, or what would be left of the UK which would likely just be England.

The "progress" made today could have been achieved in a few days rather than 18 months if it hadn't been for the silly notion of "red lines" on the single market and the customs union imposed by May' and the silly notion of entrusting the negotiation to the idiot DD, egged on by Boris and the frothers.

This ain't over yet, but it will be.

"Political and economic collapse", "ethnic cleansing" - you guys are top notch entertainment :lol:

Garbatellamike Dec 8th 2017 4:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12396138)
There is some debate about just how "supreme" EU law actually is, yet I suppose you could argue that by treaty, it technically is, although it's clear that the UK has a lot of latitude on how it interprets that.

But I'd like to hear an explanation (in tangible examples) of how these things are "bad". So bad in fact, that it even remotely justifies all the negative consequences.

No, not your opinion. Just illustrate it with tangible examples. No daily mail/express/Guardian rhetoric, please.

FIFY :sneaky:

Expatrick Dec 8th 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12396159)
Crikey, it's been busy here at remainiac central.

It's gratifying to see so many posters happy at a so-called EU win over the UK - what a strange psychology must drive that joy at the UK "losing".

Things not so good at Brexiteer Barracks then?


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