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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Dec 8th 2017 10:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12395959)
Ummmmm.... still a bit confused here (I think it's the old shell game) - how does alignment on trade or a trade agreement keep the Irish border "soft"? What about immigration rules - Ireland will still grant access to EU citizens, then they walk over the border and they're in the UK without ever having been registered.:huh:

You are right of course.
Not sure Garage has realised that yet, he is still chuntering on about Mays betrayal etc, etc.

macliam Dec 8th 2017 10:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Nigel Farage: "The whole thing is humiliating. We have collapsed at every level...Everything that has been agreed today is against what 17.4 million people voted for on 23 June 2016."

Well there's one Brexiteer who ain't too happy....

EMR Dec 8th 2017 10:31 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12395963)
Nigel Farage: "The whole thing is humiliating. We have collapsed at every level...Everything that has been agreed today is against what 17.4 million people voted for on 23 June 2016."

Well there's one Brexiteer who ain't too happy....

Bets on Nige doing an Arnie !

jimenato Dec 8th 2017 10:39 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12395963)
Nigel Farage: "The whole thing is humiliating. We have collapsed at every level...Everything that has been agreed today is against what 17.4 million people voted for on 23 June 2016."

Well there's one Brexiteer who ain't too happy....

Something good has come out of this then.:thumbsup:

InVinoVeritas Dec 8th 2017 11:15 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12395959)
Ummmmm.... still a bit confused here (I think it's the old shell game) - how does alignment on trade or a trade agreement keep the Irish border "soft"? What about immigration rules - Ireland will still grant access to EU citizens, then they walk over the border and they're in the UK without ever having been registered.:huh:

It's a typical smoke, mirrors and can-kicking by the EU which at least allows trade talks to start (always assuming the 27 members are happy with that) and that is some kind of victory for the UK, I guess.

EMR Dec 8th 2017 11:20 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12395977)
It's a typical smoke, mirrors and can-kicking by the EU which at least allows trade talks to start (always assuming the 27 members are happy with that) and that is some kind of victory for the UK, I guess.

In what brexit universe would the 27 not want trade talks.
Not a the best day for brexiters is it ?

InVinoVeritas Dec 8th 2017 11:28 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12395978)
In what brexit universe would the 27 not want trade talks.
Not a the best day for brexiters is it ?

I'm very happy, but then not all Brexiters are born equal ;)

EMR Dec 8th 2017 11:34 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12395981)
I'm very happy, but then not all Brexiters are born equal ;)

Whereas we remainers are not confused or divided and know what we want.

Red Eric Dec 8th 2017 11:42 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12395916)
The UK will preside over enforcing the rights of EU citizens------can refer unclear cases to the ECJ for eight years.

At risk of accusations of pedantry, I'd say "upholding" would be a better word than "enforcing" - and they'll only need to uphold those rights if there are attempts by the administration or the government to erode them.


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12395916)
Eight years is not a long time in the lives of the citizens concerned.

One would hope that the UK government would abide by its agreements and that the courts would continue to uphold those rights for a good deal longer than eight years.


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12395929)
Presumably the EU will be fair regarding UK citizens rights, so the UK Courts will be fair regarding those of EU citizens.

:rolleyes: An absolutely typical bit of nonsensical table-turning.

The rest of the EU member states abide by community law as far as the citizens of all states are concerned and there's absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to suddenly change in the case of UK citizens. UK citizens in the EU with complaints about treatment by their state of residence have on their side the courts of that member state and, ultimately, the ECJ.

Nobody except the UK wanted to change that. There is no dependency of how UK citizens are treated abroad in relation to the way EU citizens will be treated in the UK. That was a pantomime for the benefit of Brexiters to divert attention from the potential watering-down of rights both of UK citizens abroad (from the UK government) and EU citizens in the UK (also by the UK government).

macliam Dec 8th 2017 11:52 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12395977)
It's a typical smoke, mirrors and can-kicking by the EU UK which at least allows trade talks to start (always assuming the 27 members DUP are happy with that) and that is some kind of victory for the UK EU, I guess.

FIFY :thumb:

EMR Dec 8th 2017 11:57 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12395993)
FIFY :thumb:

UK payments to continue f0r 2019 and 2020.
Is that another victory for the UK.?

Bipat Dec 8th 2017 11:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12395981)
I'm very happy, but then not all Brexiters are born equal ;)

One point in the official Joint Report---"does not prejudge any adaptations that might be appropriate" during negotiations.

I would hope that the date for trade deals with non-EU countries would be before 2021, however negotiations in such deals can continue during the transition period.

Bipat Dec 8th 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12395986)
1)At risk of accusations of pedantry, I'd say "upholding" would be a better word than "enforcing" - and they'll only need to uphold those rights if there are attempts by the administration or the government to erode them.

2) One would hope that the UK government would abide by its agreements and that the courts would continue to uphold those rights for a good deal longer than eight years.


3):rolleyes: An absolutely typical bit of nonsensical table-turning.

The rest of the EU member states abide by community law as far as the citizens of all states are concerned and there's absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to suddenly change in the case of UK citizens. UK citizens in the EU with complaints about treatment by their state of residence have on their side the courts of that member state and, ultimately, the ECJ.

Nobody except the UK wanted to change that. There is no dependency of how UK citizens are treated abroad in relation to the way EU citizens will be treated in the UK. That was a pantomime for the benefit of Brexiters to divert attention from the potential watering-down of rights both of UK citizens abroad (from the UK government) and EU citizens in the UK (also by the UK government).

1)The word "enforce" is used in the Official Joint Statement---page 5.
2) I agree.
3) Mrs May stated long ago that EU citizens would maintain their rights in the UK--obviously she waited for some sort of indication that this would be reciprocated for UK citizens in EU countries.

Red Eric Dec 8th 2017 12:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12396003)
1)The word "enforce" is used in the Official Joint Statement---page 5.

It is used in the context of enforcing the agreement (about upholding the rights).


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12396003)
3) Mrs May stated long ago that EU citizens would maintain their rights in the UK--obviously she waited for some sort of indication that this would be reciprocated for UK citizens in EU countries.

And the deception I mentioned above has worked just fine on its target audience, by the looks of it.

morpeth Dec 8th 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12395964)
Bets on Nige doing an Arnie !

At least dear Nigel reflecting the reality that the weak negotiating position of the UK is eliminating success in many of the areas people voted for Brexit to achieve. I didnt vote I the referendum, but I am trying to be open-minded and determine where the distinct benefit to the UK is. The so-called "trade deals" we hear so much about appear to be kind of a fantasy. Instead of taking opium to blind themselves to reality, people rely on the make-believe of trade deals to make up for the negative effect of voting for Brexit, What a mess !

Maybe if the working poor and working class were doing much better, one could be content that reclaiming rights from the Eurocrats to justify Brexit, but that isn't the case.


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