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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

TrickyTreeRed Dec 4th 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12393700)
Who in what universe has said that we are not leaving.
The debate is not about remain but not leaving the UK up to its neck in the brown stuff as a result of the leave vote.
Will you accept what ever happens as being your fault and that of every other leave voter ?

On your first point, I was responding to another poster who thought - incorrectly - that I shared Nigel Farage's view of holding another referendum IF the result was narrowly in favour of Remain.

On your second point, the UK will do just fine without being an EU member state. And the EU will do just fine without the UK being a member.

On your third point, I did not cast a ballot in the referendum as I live in Canada - thus ineligible to vote.

That being said, in June 2016 I would have voted to remain in the EU. However, since then, my opinion has changed and I would now vote to leave.

At the last minute, the EU demanded that Canada make further concessions in order to implement a free trade agreement. This despite an agreement already being agreed upon. The EU shook Canada's hand then went back on its word. Canadians were not impressed. Canada had negotiated with good faith and were repaid with dishonesty. Thankfully the agreement is going forward. But the EU's actions were telling.

The actions of many in the Remain camp since they finished second in the referendum are disappointing. Instead of accepting the result and unifying with the other side to work in the best interests of the UK, they have done the opposite. I don't have much time for sore losers.

I have lived in continental Europe (Germany), enjoy visiting European (and other) countries, speak passable French (I've tried but languages are not my strong suit), and have close friends who were born in European countries.

I am pro-Europe, but thanks to the actions of EU politicians and many on the Remain side, I am no longer pro-EU.

Cape Blue Dec 4th 2017 5:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12393545)
That's the one. Farage who lived off an EU salary for years and years, while barely showing up for work, will now take a 73,000 pound per year pension from the EU. The man is what he always was - a nasty, dishonest little opportunistic lowlife.

Just goes to show what a gravy train the EU is for the MEPs and many of its highly paid, lowly taxed employees.

007Steve Dec 4th 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12393876)
So, the move to discuss trade issues is scuppered, seemingly by the DUP refusing to accept the proposal to avoid a hard border.

The UK was reportedly prepared to accept that Northern Ireland would remain within the customs union and single market (in all but name), but Arlene Foster told Theresa May that the DUP "had significant concerns" about any deal that gave concessions to Dublin (surprise, surprise!) and she could not guarantee continuation of the agreement to support the Tories.....

Welcome to the world of NI politics, the UK will soon come to understand why there is no Assembly at present - because compromise and the DUP don't go together. Since without DUP support the government cannot be certain to pass Brexit legislation, the DUP hold the cards in this poker game (as I have suggested before) - so never mind £1bn, this could cost the UK far, far more.

As Chaucer said "Therfor bihoveth him a ful long spoon that shal ete with a feend"

... I imagine May's delicate conversation to Arlene will be something like this....

Annetje Dec 4th 2017 6:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TrickyTreeRed (Post 12393903)
That being said, in June 2016 I would have voted to remain in the EU. However, since then, my opinion has changed and I would now vote to leave.

At the last minute, the EU demanded that Canada make further concessions in order to implement a free trade agreement. This despite an agreement already being agreed upon. The EU shook Canada's hand then went back on its word. Canadians were not impressed. Canada had negotiated with good faith and were repaid with dishonesty. Thankfully the agreement is going forward. But the EU's actions were telling.

Are you talking about Wallonia veto-ing the deal ? (Just shows how democratic the EU is)

Annetje Dec 4th 2017 6:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12393920)
... I imagine May's delicate conversation to Arlene will be something like this....

Now we know for sure who is leading the country ...

macliam Dec 4th 2017 6:50 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
The situation with the current Brexit negotiation is rather similar to that of the aborted EU/Canada deal (and potentially to any final Brexit agreement). It's the problem with devolved powers.....

May had agreed a form of words about the border to move the process forward, Dublin knew this. Then the DUP scuppered the deal......

The EU agreed an outline deal with Canada, but it had to be ratified by all the states. Then Wallonia scuppered the deal......

The difference is that EU deals require ratification by all members - because the EU cannot speak for them, whereas Westminster is NOT so constrained. May is quite happy to ignore the votes of Scotland and NI, but needs the DUP's support to stay in power......

The irony is, after all the hissy-fits from Ministers about Dublin's "interference", it's not Dublin who are causing problems, but their own bought allies in the North.

Cape Blue Dec 4th 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12393930)
Are you talking about Wallonia veto-ing the deal ? (Just shows how democratic the EU is)

That's very true re Wallonia and EU democracy, but the other way of looking at it is that the UK will get far quicker and better FTAs etc when negotiating on its own.

Red Eric Dec 4th 2017 7:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12393955)
That's very true re Wallonia and EU democracy, but the other way of looking at it is that the UK will get far quicker and better FTAs etc when negotiating on its own.

Will it? :unsure: - and what's in the "etc"?

Red Eric Dec 4th 2017 7:40 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by TrickyTreeRed (Post 12393903)
...in June 2016 I would have voted to remain in the EU. However, since then, my opinion has changed and I would now vote to leave.

Obviously a lot of uncertainty reigns in the light of what has transpired since the referendum. Given the closeness of the result and the present inability of the government to properly determine what it was people actually voted for (or to implement what it is they have arbitrarily decided on that score), clearly the only way of deciding the best way to proceed in the interests of determining and honouring the true and current "will of the people" would be to hold another referendum.

Not yet, obviously. Give it time to become well and truly apparent to all and sundry first that the government's in a bit of a cul-de-sac here and then give them the courage to put another question.

macliam Dec 4th 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12393955)
That's very true re Wallonia and EU democracy, but the other way of looking at it is that the UK will get far quicker and better FTAs etc when negotiating on its own.

Potentially, depending to whom the government owes favours.......

Lion in Winter Dec 4th 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12393909)
Just goes to show what a gravy train the EU is for the MEPs and many of its highly paid, lowly taxed employees.

Do you consider pensions to be a gravy train? I hope you will not be accepting yours then.

Equally, of course, I expect you worked for yours whilst Flange had the second worst record in the entire Union for showing up to work - 40% of the time I believe. If you showed up to work 40% of the time, would you expect a pension? Or even a salary? Well Flange does.

The hypocrisy of taking first 20 years or so of salary and then a whopping great pension, all the while claming that the EU is a gravy train and should be abolished :rofl: Nuff said.

Annetje Dec 4th 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12393909)
Just goes to show what a gravy train the EU is for the MEPs and many of its highly paid, lowly taxed employees.

Quote from European Parliament information office in London :

9. How much do MEPs earn and is it taxed?Following the implementation of the single Statute, the monthly pre-tax salary for MEPs is Euro 8,484.05.
The salary is paid from Parliament's budget and is subject to an EU tax and accident insurance contribution, after which the salary is Euro 6,611.42. Member States can also subject the salary to national taxes. In the UK the salary is also taxed by the Inland Revenue in order bring the total tax paid up to the level of taxation payable by a UK resident The basic salary is set at 38.5% of the basic salary of a judge at the European Court of Justice.
MEPs who sat in Parliament before the 2009 elections were given the opportunity to keep the previous national system for salary, transitional allowance and pensions, for the entire duration of their membership of the European Parliament.


:nod:

macliam Dec 4th 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12393969)
Obviously a lot of uncertainty reigns in the light of what has transpired since the referendum. Given the closeness of the result and the present inability of the government to properly determine what it was people actually voted for (or to implement what it is they have arbitrarily decided on that score), clearly the only way of deciding the best way to proceed in the interests of determining and honouring the true and current "will of the people" would be to hold another referendum.

Not yet, obviously. Give it time to become well and truly apparent to all and sundry first that the government's in a bit of a cul-de-sac here and then give them the courage to put another question.

I still don't think the result would be any more predictable - for every pro-Brexit voter who decides it wasn't such a good idea, there will be another pro-EU voter who has got fed up with the wrangling or has been convinced that the EU is a bully, so it's hard to call:huh:.

For sure, everyone knows a but more about what is involved and what is at stake now, but that can cut both ways. I just don't see there being a huge majority against Brexit - so, if the result was just as close, but the other way, the Brexiteers would be justifiably miffed and the genie wouldn't go back into the bottle. If a new vote just confirmed the Brexit decision, where does that get us?

Annetje Dec 4th 2017 8:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12393955)
That's very true re Wallonia and EU democracy, but the other way of looking at it is that the UK will get far quicker and better FTAs etc when negotiating on its own.

Your confidence is very sweet :lol:

Novocastrian Dec 4th 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12393876)
So, the move to discuss trade issues is scuppered, seemingly by the DUP refusing to accept the proposal to avoid a hard border.

The UK was reportedly prepared to accept that Northern Ireland would remain within the customs union and single market (in all but name), but Arlene Foster told Theresa May that the DUP "had significant concerns" about any deal that gave concessions to Dublin (surprise, surprise!) and she could not guarantee continuation of the agreement to support the Tories.....

Welcome to the world of NI politics, the UK will soon come to understand why there is no Assembly at present - because compromise and the DUP don't go together. Since without DUP support the government cannot be certain to pass Brexit legislation, the DUP hold the cards in this poker game (as I have suggested before) - so never mind £1bn, this could cost the UK far, far more.

As Chaucer said "Therfor bihoveth him a ful long spoon that shal ete with a feend"

There was an article in a paper I read today (honestly I forget which one) which opined that the Irish Question has put paid to many a UK PM, as has the EU question. May ( said the article) has managed to mix both these issues into a single toxic glass.

Bye bye Theresa, hallo Jeremy.


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