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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

jimenato Dec 1st 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12392410)
Maybe we should have a checklist to record the unravelling of the Brexit hyperbole.

Today's U-turn is that the UK is to tell the EU that it wishes to stay in the European Aviation Safety Agency, under the indirect jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, in order to keep planes flying after Brexit. https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-s...-line-11151049

So much for Theresa May's "red line" last October, that the UK must no longer come under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

IDS said only this morning that leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ was his red line - that's the point at which he would consider we would have left. So it looks like we're not leaving then by his criteria.

Assanah Dec 1st 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
And here I thought that the EU is good for nothing, that once the UK left it would negotiate all those international treaties without the restraint of "EU rules". Well keep those international agreements coming dear Brits you are doing just wonderful.

Bipat Dec 1st 2017 5:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12392426)
IDS said only this morning that leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ was his red line - that's the point at which he would consider we would have left. So it looks like we're not leaving then by his criteria.

There is a difference between indirect jurisdiction of the ECJ in certain agreed matters and EU law being supreme to UK national law as an EU law principle.

After independence many Commonwealth countries retained the UK Privy Council as a Court of Appeal. (Often shipping cases). It didn't affect their independence and most have ended this now (their own decision).

jimenato Dec 1st 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12392474)
There is a difference between indirect jurisdiction of the ECJ in certain agreed matters and EU law being supreme to UK national law as an EU law principle.

After independence many Commonwealth countries retained the UK Privy Council as a Court of Appeal. (Often shipping cases). It didn't affect their independence and most have ended this now (their own decision).

Right:sneaky:

macliam Dec 1st 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12392474)
There is a difference between indirect jurisdiction of the ECJ in certain agreed matters and EU law being supreme to UK national law as an EU law principle.

After independence many Commonwealth countries retained the UK Privy Council as a Court of Appeal. (Often shipping cases). It didn't affect their independence and most have ended this now (their own decision).

Nice attempted spin, maybe you should join the Government!

So where, exactly, did the ECJ overrule the British Supreme Court? I quote from the UKSC's own website: HERE

Can the European Court of Human Rights or the Court of Justice of the European Union overrule the UKSC?

No. However, when making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible.



Next.....

Red Eric Dec 1st 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12392474)
There is a difference between indirect jurisdiction of the ECJ in certain agreed matters and EU law being supreme to UK national law as an EU law principle.

Sounds pretty similar to me, once a country has agreed that it will abide by EU law and especially in the case of the UK, which negotiated itself a full set of top-of-the-range luxury cop-outs.

What does Nige say?

amideislas Dec 1st 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
The rationales for brexit are about 99% perception. What's been happening since the referendum result is a testament to that.

At some point, reality will have to be acknowledged. The problem is, acknowledgement is being realised only about millimeter per month. We now have about a kilometer left to go, and about 12 months to sort it. So, we'll probably end up about 999 meters short by the time the bell rings.

Bipat Dec 1st 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12392504)
Nice attempted spin, maybe you should join the Government!

So where, exactly, did the ECJ overrule the British Supreme Court? I quote from the UKSC's own website: HERE

Can the European Court of Human Rights or the Court of Justice of the European Union overrule the UKSC?

No. However, when making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible.



Next.....

The supremacy of EU law over national law is a principle of EU law. Appeals can be taken to the ECJ and a decision made.

The same with the ECHR Strasbourg.

macliam Dec 1st 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12392546)
The supremacy of EU law over national law is a principle of EU law. Appeals can be taken to the ECJ and a decision made.

The same with the ECHR Strasbourg.

Can you not read? Or are you suggesting the UK Supreme Court are lying?

Can the European Court of Human Rights or the Court of Justice of the European Union overrule the UKSC?

No. However, when making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible.


No matter how many times you repeat the same falsehood, it doesn't make it true. The ECJ has ruled against the UK in cases taken directly to it, but can you tell me a single case where the UKSC has been overruled by the ECJ?

As for the ECHR, that is nothing to do with the EU, as stated many times before, so let's drop the conflation. Unless the UK also joins Belarus to become the only major European states not members of the Council of Europe, the ECHR is binding.

Former Lancastrian Dec 1st 2017 8:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well the EU are looking at banning the phosphates used in the slabs of meat used for DONER (DONAIR) KEBABS :ohmy:

That might make some remainers change their vote if the ban goes through.
The UK could start up a tourist trade by advertising kebabs with sulphates.

Street food vendors skewer EU’s proposed kebab ban | National Post

Bipat Dec 1st 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12392604)
Can you not read? Or are you suggesting the UK Supreme Court are lying?

Can the European Court of Human Rights or the Court of Justice of the European Union overrule the UKSC?

No. However, when making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible.


No matter how many times you repeat the same falsehood, it doesn't make it true. The ECJ has ruled against the UK in cases taken directly to it, but can you tell me a single case where the UKSC has been overruled by the ECJ?

As for the ECHR, that is nothing to do with the EU, as stated many times before, so let's drop the conflation. Unless the UK also joins Belarus to become the only major European states not members of the Council of Europe, the ECHR is binding.

No court "overrules" another, an appeal is taken to the higher court. As you have said the UKSC is obliged to interpret domestic (national) law consistently with EU law.

EU law is 'supreme'.
https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-...-law-essay.php

It was your link that mentioned ECHR--the same principle applies in that appeals have to be made to the court, it doesn't just decide to "overrule".

amideislas Dec 1st 2017 9:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12392614)
Well the EU are looking at banning the phosphates used in the slabs of meat used for DONER (DONAIR) KEBABS :ohmy:

That might make some remainers change their vote if the ban goes through.
The UK could start up a tourist trade by advertising kebabs with sulphates.

Street food vendors skewer EU’s proposed kebab ban | National Post

I love phosphates. I buy barrels of it and put it on Christmas turkey. Gives it that "authentic" taste.

I also wash all my chicken in bleach. Then add cumin and plutonium 235. Delightful. Very modern and British. Jamie would be proud.

Shard Dec 1st 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12392410)
Maybe we should have a checklist to record the unravelling of the Brexit hyperbole.

Today's U-turn is that the UK is to tell the EU that it wishes to stay in the European Aviation Safety Agency, under the indirect jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, in order to keep planes flying after Brexit. https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-s...-line-11151049

So much for Theresa May's "red line" last October, that the UK must no longer come under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

I'd be surprised if one of the pro-Remain papers or blogs isn't doing this. Such a checklist (or truth swingometer) would be quite useful.

Red Eric Dec 1st 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12392614)
Well the EU are looking at banning the phosphates used in the slabs of meat used for DONER (DONAIR) KEBABS :ohmy:

That might make some remainers change their vote if the ban goes through.
The UK could start up a tourist trade by advertising kebabs with sulphates.

Street food vendors skewer EU’s proposed kebab ban | National Post


'S ok. The UK will be having a huge bonfire of EU regulations, so UK practitioners of the art of the kebab will be welcome to continue to earn their livelihoods untroubled by such nonsense. And with the renewed open skies agreement and the abandonment of previous promises about visa requirements for short term visitors, there'll be a constant swarm of kebab tourism from the EU swamping the UK. So much so, in fact, that Turkish kebab chefs will be in huge demand and the UK will become the largest importer of persons of Turkish origin in all of Europe. Boris will be beaming from ear to ear about the fulfilment of all his promises to the Turks.

Novocastrian Dec 1st 2017 9:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12392614)
Well the EU are looking at banning the phosphates used in the slabs of meat used for DONER (DONAIR) KEBABS :ohmy:

Idiot,


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