Post EU Referendum
Nov 29th 2017, 10:55 pm
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Annetje
How do you know that ?
Nov 29th 2017, 11:02 pm
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
Oh ok. Thanks. Sorry I mixed up your nationality. What is OCI?
Nov 29th 2017, 11:05 pm
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 6,291
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
Are you saying the Remainers don't do also this?
It is many Remainers (on this Forum) who repeatedly post "the vote was about"---giving their own opinion, generally adding words like 'unintelligent', xenophobic, uneducated etc. etc.
I think an open mind is necessary as to why individuals voted either remain or leave or didn't vote at all.
It is many Remainers (on this Forum) who repeatedly post "the vote was about"---giving their own opinion, generally adding words like 'unintelligent', xenophobic, uneducated etc. etc.
I think an open mind is necessary as to why individuals voted either remain or leave or didn't vote at all.
Not everyone voted from careful rational analysis, many I think voted according to their own "hot topic".
Nov 29th 2017, 11:09 pm
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by morpeth
Bipat, I admit I haven't studied any detailed polling at the time, but anecdotally speaking to people after the referendum there were a variety of reasons people voted for Brexit- my point is simply considering how close the vote was, and how it is abundantly obvious that some of votes for Brexit were for reasons we now see were either incorrect to begin with, or have proven to be incorrect with the path Britain is on- though I agree negotiations are ongoing.
On immigration there were some who simply voted for Brexit expecting(a) an overall significant decrease in immigration (b) specifically wanted less competition from migrants. (c) eliminating free movement besides for economic reasons, also for security reasons. Whether you agree with either, those were reasons I heard. Others expecting big cash savings- paying 50 billion pounds certainly last thing on their minds. Some whether from emotion or political belief, to get rid of EU rules- but may will remain if UK wishes to export to EU.
But what extra money are you referring to if there is such a "divorce bill" ?
Just seems to me if referendum vote so close and evidently result hardly what voters thought they would be getting, it would be logical for a better-worded referendum to be held before taking such a plunge. The disillusion of Brexit voters when they see after Brexit none of their particular reasons for voting for it are met I don't think will be a positive for the UK.
On immigration there were some who simply voted for Brexit expecting(a) an overall significant decrease in immigration (b) specifically wanted less competition from migrants. (c) eliminating free movement besides for economic reasons, also for security reasons. Whether you agree with either, those were reasons I heard. Others expecting big cash savings- paying 50 billion pounds certainly last thing on their minds. Some whether from emotion or political belief, to get rid of EU rules- but may will remain if UK wishes to export to EU.
But what extra money are you referring to if there is such a "divorce bill" ?
Just seems to me if referendum vote so close and evidently result hardly what voters thought they would be getting, it would be logical for a better-worded referendum to be held before taking such a plunge. The disillusion of Brexit voters when they see after Brexit none of their particular reasons for voting for it are met I don't think will be a positive for the UK.
The extra money is the membership fee!
We don't know yet what the outcome of negotiations will be or which reasons for voting leave will be met or not met.
Nov 30th 2017, 3:36 am
EU hoo
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: émigré of nowhere
Posts: 1,954
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by morpeth
Not everyone voted from careful rational analysis, many I think voted according to their own "hot topic".
Nov 30th 2017, 8:48 am
Who - me?
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
Are you saying people didn't vote for "controlled immigration", and "not free movement from 27 countries." My words.
What I was saying was that you made a clear statement about what people voted for when, on numerous previous occasions, you have claimed that it isn't possible to say what people voted for because they all had their own individual reasons.
I can well understand why some Leave voters want to distance themselves from the less pleasant aspects of the campaigning from the Leave factions and the idea that it may have influenced the outcome. However, you have to ask yourself why so cynically pushing those buttons was such a prominent feature of the campaigns if it wasn't thought that it could prove the decisive factor?
Here's a question for you - in a straw poll of the nation, who do you think would come top as the person who did the most to obtain the result?
Nov 30th 2017, 8:51 am
Who - me?
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
The extra money is the membership fee!
Nov 30th 2017, 8:51 am
Preparing to move again
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Charente Maritime
Posts: 5,703
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
Polls give a sample of views, a possible indication of what might be views in general. It is not valid to extrapolate that to the views of 'the nation' as usually reported here.
Originally Posted by Bipat
A poll run by the Times of India, (It was discussed on this thread last year).
Nov 30th 2017, 9:01 am
Who - me?
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by la mancha
Listen up, people, I am very happy the way things are going. We are leaving the EU. It is what I voted for and it will happen. Nothing is troubling me and I am not anxious, but you call this a debate? It is one big Remainer egotistical piss-taking smiley-faced whingefest. A debate? Give over.
It's not compulsory reading, though - you can contribute to BE on other threads and ignore this one, if you like.
Nov 30th 2017, 9:24 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Red Eric
You keep prefacing your remarks with "Are you saying" and proceeding with something that clearly hasn't been said by the person you're questioning.
What I was saying was that you made a clear statement about what people voted for when, on numerous previous occasions, you have claimed that it isn't possible to say what people voted for because they all had their own individual reasons.
I can well understand why some Leave voters want to distance themselves from the less pleasant aspects of the campaigning from the Leave factions and the idea that it may have influenced the outcome. However, you have to ask yourself why so cynically pushing those buttons was such a prominent feature of the campaigns if it wasn't thought that it could prove the decisive factor?
Obviously Farage had an influence. Camerons pre-campaign leaflets had an influence!
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told by tabloid newspapers.
Here's a question for you - in a straw poll of the nation, who do you think would come top as the person who did the most to obtain the result?
What I was saying was that you made a clear statement about what people voted for when, on numerous previous occasions, you have claimed that it isn't possible to say what people voted for because they all had their own individual reasons.
I can well understand why some Leave voters want to distance themselves from the less pleasant aspects of the campaigning from the Leave factions and the idea that it may have influenced the outcome. However, you have to ask yourself why so cynically pushing those buttons was such a prominent feature of the campaigns if it wasn't thought that it could prove the decisive factor?
Obviously Farage had an influence. Camerons pre-campaign leaflets had an influence!
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told by tabloid newspapers.
Here's a question for you - in a straw poll of the nation, who do you think would come top as the person who did the most to obtain the result?
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told/entertained by, in tabloid newspapers.
Nov 30th 2017, 9:31 am
Who - me?
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told/entertained by, in tabloid newspapers.
Nov 30th 2017, 9:39 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Annetje
So you select the polls you believe ...
Can you explain how the Times of India knows how all migrants in the UK voted (not just Indians) ...
Can you explain how the Times of India knows how all migrants in the UK voted (not just Indians) ...
I wondered at the time how the poll was carried out.
It was titled Poll of the 'Desi' population of the UK--which includes all from the sub-continent not just Indian people.
These are the largest group of migrant origin people in the UK.
A large number of these people have small businesses in the UK and would favour leave to escape EU bureaucracy, those in 'big' business are divided in opinion see links in 'apartheid'
thread.
Nov 30th 2017, 9:42 am
Dunroaming back in UK
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Expat in Yorkshire now
Posts: 10,012
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Red Eric
Do you think people might be influenced by what they are constantly presented with, though?
Some people may have been influenced, some people not and some may even have concluded both sides were a bunch of untrustworthy liars making ridiculous assertions.
Nov 30th 2017, 9:47 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Red Eric
Do you think people might be influenced by what they are constantly presented with, though?
I for one am still partly influenced by the economic arguments and wondering if my vote was 'right'--and soundly reprimanded for doubting by ultra-leave OH (no connection to any small business
)
Nov 30th 2017, 10:00 am
Who - me?
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Re: Post EU Referendum
But only one side campaigned for 40 years, unashamedly using misinformation and disinformation before ramping it up for the referendum itself.
It's all very well trying to claim both sides were as bad as each other or that the tabloids (and other publications) had no influence or that some of that propaganda was harmless fun and entertainment but it all had its influence, just as the constant drip, drip of xenophobia does.
The fact that it can be dismissed as insignificant and harmless entertainment shows just how pernicious it become.
It's all very well trying to claim both sides were as bad as each other or that the tabloids (and other publications) had no influence or that some of that propaganda was harmless fun and entertainment but it all had its influence, just as the constant drip, drip of xenophobia does.
The fact that it can be dismissed as insignificant and harmless entertainment shows just how pernicious it become.
