Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 29th 2017, 10:55 pm
  #24541  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
How do you know that ?
A poll run by the Times of India, (It was discussed on this thread last year).
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 29th 2017, 11:02 pm
  #24542  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Oh ok. Thanks. Sorry I mixed up your nationality. What is OCI?
OCI --overseas citizen India--in reality a life-time visa--giving 'free movement'!
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 29th 2017, 11:05 pm
  #24543  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 6,291
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Are you saying the Remainers don't do also this?

It is many Remainers (on this Forum) who repeatedly post "the vote was about"---giving their own opinion, generally adding words like 'unintelligent', xenophobic, uneducated etc. etc.

I think an open mind is necessary as to why individuals voted either remain or leave or didn't vote at all.
I agree an open mind is necessary, and I have already written I haven't studied polls in great detail. I do know what people told me when I asked, and also that considering the answers there was a wide variety of reasons given for voting for Brexit that hardly the "official" campaign would have or did state. If I am wrong and that was just in the area of country I know, then I welcome those with a wider experience to correct that impression.

Not everyone voted from careful rational analysis, many I think voted according to their own "hot topic".
morpeth is offline  
Old Nov 29th 2017, 11:09 pm
  #24544  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Bipat, I admit I haven't studied any detailed polling at the time, but anecdotally speaking to people after the referendum there were a variety of reasons people voted for Brexit- my point is simply considering how close the vote was, and how it is abundantly obvious that some of votes for Brexit were for reasons we now see were either incorrect to begin with, or have proven to be incorrect with the path Britain is on- though I agree negotiations are ongoing.

On immigration there were some who simply voted for Brexit expecting(a) an overall significant decrease in immigration (b) specifically wanted less competition from migrants. (c) eliminating free movement besides for economic reasons, also for security reasons. Whether you agree with either, those were reasons I heard. Others expecting big cash savings- paying 50 billion pounds certainly last thing on their minds. Some whether from emotion or political belief, to get rid of EU rules- but may will remain if UK wishes to export to EU.

But what extra money are you referring to if there is such a "divorce bill" ?

Just seems to me if referendum vote so close and evidently result hardly what voters thought they would be getting, it would be logical for a better-worded referendum to be held before taking such a plunge. The disillusion of Brexit voters when they see after Brexit none of their particular reasons for voting for it are met I don't think will be a positive for the UK.
There were people who voted for many different reasons on both Remain and Leave sides ---or didn't vote at all.

The extra money is the membership fee!

We don't know yet what the outcome of negotiations will be or which reasons for voting leave will be met or not met.
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 3:36 am
  #24545  
EU hoo
 
iano's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: émigré of nowhere
Posts: 1,954
iano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Not everyone voted from careful rational analysis, many I think voted according to their own "hot topic".
....from the Mail. Or, the Sun. Or, the Express.
iano is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 8:48 am
  #24546  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Are you saying people didn't vote for "controlled immigration", and "not free movement from 27 countries." My words.
You keep prefacing your remarks with "Are you saying" and proceeding with something that clearly hasn't been said by the person you're questioning.

What I was saying was that you made a clear statement about what people voted for when, on numerous previous occasions, you have claimed that it isn't possible to say what people voted for because they all had their own individual reasons.

I can well understand why some Leave voters want to distance themselves from the less pleasant aspects of the campaigning from the Leave factions and the idea that it may have influenced the outcome. However, you have to ask yourself why so cynically pushing those buttons was such a prominent feature of the campaigns if it wasn't thought that it could prove the decisive factor?

Here's a question for you - in a straw poll of the nation, who do you think would come top as the person who did the most to obtain the result?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 8:51 am
  #24547  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The extra money is the membership fee!
And what if, as a result of Brexit, the nations finances worsen to a greater degree than the saving of the membership fee?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 8:51 am
  #24548  
Preparing to move again
 
Annetje's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Charente Maritime
Posts: 5,703
Annetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond reputeAnnetje has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Polls give a sample of views, a possible indication of what might be views in general. It is not valid to extrapolate that to the views of 'the nation' as usually reported here.
So you select the polls you believe ...

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
A poll run by the Times of India, (It was discussed on this thread last year).
Can you explain how the Times of India knows how all migrants in the UK voted (not just Indians) ...
Annetje is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:01 am
  #24549  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Listen up, people, I am very happy the way things are going. We are leaving the EU. It is what I voted for and it will happen. Nothing is troubling me and I am not anxious, but you call this a debate? It is one big Remainer egotistical piss-taking smiley-faced whingefest. A debate? Give over.
Not quite sure why you're getting all worked up again but there seems to be quite a range of viewpoints represented on here.

It's not compulsory reading, though - you can contribute to BE on other threads and ignore this one, if you like.





Red Eric is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:24 am
  #24550  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
You keep prefacing your remarks with "Are you saying" and proceeding with something that clearly hasn't been said by the person you're questioning.

What I was saying was that you made a clear statement about what people voted for when, on numerous previous occasions, you have claimed that it isn't possible to say what people voted for because they all had their own individual reasons.

I can well understand why some Leave voters want to distance themselves from the less pleasant aspects of the campaigning from the Leave factions and the idea that it may have influenced the outcome. However, you have to ask yourself why so cynically pushing those buttons was such a prominent feature of the campaigns if it wasn't thought that it could prove the decisive factor?

Obviously Farage had an influence. Camerons pre-campaign leaflets had an influence!
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told by tabloid newspapers.


Here's a question for you - in a straw poll of the nation, who do you think would come top as the person who did the most to obtain the result?
Obviously Farage had an influence. Cameron's pre-campaign leaflets in every door had an influence.

What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told/entertained by, in tabloid newspapers.
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:31 am
  #24551  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What I have been trying to say is that the majority of voters are not so unintelligent that they accept everything they are told/entertained by, in tabloid newspapers.
Do you think people might be influenced by what they are constantly presented with, though?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:39 am
  #24552  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
So you select the polls you believe ...



Can you explain how the Times of India knows how all migrants in the UK voted (not just Indians) ...
As the numbers involved in the poll are a larger percentage of the population concerned than other polls they are possibly more accurate.

I wondered at the time how the poll was carried out.

It was titled Poll of the 'Desi' population of the UK--which includes all from the sub-continent not just Indian people.
These are the largest group of migrant origin people in the UK.

A large number of these people have small businesses in the UK and would favour leave to escape EU bureaucracy, those in 'big' business are divided in opinion see links in 'apartheid' thread.
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:42 am
  #24553  
Dunroaming back in UK
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Expat in Yorkshire now
Posts: 10,012
Garbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond reputeGarbatellamike has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Do you think people might be influenced by what they are constantly presented with, though?
This discussion is at risk of going all Monte Python here - "we're all individuals" - "I'm not"

Some people may have been influenced, some people not and some may even have concluded both sides were a bunch of untrustworthy liars making ridiculous assertions.
Garbatellamike is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 9:47 am
  #24554  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,841
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Do you think people might be influenced by what they are constantly presented with, though?
People were constantly presented with campaigning from 'both sides'.
I for one am still partly influenced by the economic arguments and wondering if my vote was 'right'--and soundly reprimanded for doubting by ultra-leave OH (no connection to any small business )
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 30th 2017, 10:00 am
  #24555  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,352
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

But only one side campaigned for 40 years, unashamedly using misinformation and disinformation before ramping it up for the referendum itself.

It's all very well trying to claim both sides were as bad as each other or that the tabloids (and other publications) had no influence or that some of that propaganda was harmless fun and entertainment but it all had its influence, just as the constant drip, drip of xenophobia does.

The fact that it can be dismissed as insignificant and harmless entertainment shows just how pernicious it become.
Red Eric is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.