Post EU Referendum
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We have a little clarity– or the outline of it. The choice, imo, is now simple.
EITHER:
live in a UK run by an unaccountable off-shore non-tax paying elite, with sprinklings of token-lefties for window-dressing via a pre-bought Parliament on the instructions of global-corporates, run on an 18th Century electoral system, and be governed by laws without oversight or review by a judiciary who are as independent as slaves, using an unwritten 'flexible' constitution which is as clear as mud (except when it suits), under a museum piece of an institution of an unelected & silent head-of-state who never contributes to policy; - save to send ‘her’ troops to die in someone’s else’s wars.
OR:
get out.
As the Yankees say, suck it up people, line straddling is no longer an option. (Notice incidentally how all the fine talk about EU Citizens Rights has been supplanted by the money....)
EITHER:
live in a UK run by an unaccountable off-shore non-tax paying elite, with sprinklings of token-lefties for window-dressing via a pre-bought Parliament on the instructions of global-corporates, run on an 18th Century electoral system, and be governed by laws without oversight or review by a judiciary who are as independent as slaves, using an unwritten 'flexible' constitution which is as clear as mud (except when it suits), under a museum piece of an institution of an unelected & silent head-of-state who never contributes to policy; - save to send ‘her’ troops to die in someone’s else’s wars.
OR:
get out.
As the Yankees say, suck it up people, line straddling is no longer an option. (Notice incidentally how all the fine talk about EU Citizens Rights has been supplanted by the money....)
Last edited by 007Steve; Nov 29th 2017 at 4:41 pm.


Bojo has just said on telly that he thinks the 50 Billion or so is 'fair'.
In Bojospeak 'fair' must mean the same as 'go whistle'.
In Bojospeak 'fair' must mean the same as 'go whistle'.

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Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Last edited by morpeth; Nov 29th 2017 at 8:09 pm.


I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.


I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
The People Have Spoken! (well, 37.4% of them anyway!)

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I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.
So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?
Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.



It's nearly half time, apparently.
Last edited by Red Eric; Nov 29th 2017 at 9:07 pm.


The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries. Those EU immigrants ( already in the country are not going to be sent home wherever they originate from, that was never an option).
"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?
Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?
Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
And I have exactly as much evidence for that as you have for what you said.


The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries. Those EU immigrants ( already in the country are not going to be sent home wherever they originate from, that was never an option).
"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?
Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?
Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.

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Originally Posted by Red Eric;12391342[B
]
And you - repeatedly - castigate anybody who posits a "the vote was about" on which you don't agree.
[/B]It's nearly half time, apparently.

[/B]It's nearly half time, apparently.
It is many Remainers (on this Forum) who repeatedly post "the vote was about"---giving their own opinion, generally adding words like 'unintelligent', xenophobic, uneducated etc. etc.
I think an open mind is necessary as to why individuals voted either remain or leave or didn't vote at all.

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We don't yet know how much extra money will or will not go to the NHS as a result of Brexit.

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The vote was for staying in or leaving the EU. It was last year. It is done. When will you people give it up?

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Why did non-EU origin migrants vote in the same proportions? There is poll evidence of that!

