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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 29th 2017, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

We have a little clarity– or the outline of it. The choice, imo, is now simple.
EITHER:
live in a UK run by an unaccountable off-shore non-tax paying elite, with sprinklings of token-lefties for window-dressing via a pre-bought Parliament on the instructions of global-corporates, run on an 18th Century electoral system, and be governed by laws without oversight or review by a judiciary who are as independent as slaves, using an unwritten 'flexible' constitution which is as clear as mud (except when it suits), under a museum piece of an institution of an unelected & silent head-of-state who never contributes to policy; - save to send ‘her’ troops to die in someone’s else’s wars.
OR:
get out.

As the Yankees say, suck it up people, line straddling is no longer an option. (Notice incidentally how all the fine talk about EU Citizens Rights has been supplanted by the money....)

Last edited by 007Steve; Nov 29th 2017 at 4:41 pm.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 6:09 pm
  #24512  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Bojo has just said on telly that he thinks the 50 Billion or so is 'fair'.

In Bojospeak 'fair' must mean the same as 'go whistle'.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 7:52 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Bojo has just said on telly that he thinks the 50 Billion or so is 'fair'.

In Bojospeak 'fair' must mean the same as 'go whistle'.
Glad to see you understand the UK's new language.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Bojo has just said on telly that he thinks the 50 Billion or so is 'fair'.

In Bojospeak 'fair' must mean the same as 'go whistle'.
I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.

Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.

So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.

Last edited by morpeth; Nov 29th 2017 at 8:09 pm.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 8:30 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.

Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.

So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Makes sense - won't happen.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 8:40 pm
  #24516  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.

Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.

So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
Don't be daft - the EU-sceptics moaned about multiple votes until the right result was achieved and now they're using that to avoid a re-run, despite the original campaigns having been dishonest, inept and biased.

The People Have Spoken! (well, 37.4% of them anyway!)
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I wasn't in UK during the referendum but in my simple way of looking at things, vote for leaving base don several factors, including general immigration, immigration from Eastern Europe, money for NHS and general cost savings, and of course emotional desire ( which I understand) to get out of control/influence of bureaucrats in Brussels.

Now there is a huge cost being discussed, no savings and no extra funds for NHS, and most likely little change in numbers of East Europeans already in UK, and little real change in overall immigration.

So why not have a referendum on specifics as situation now stands ? If Brexit such a good idea wouldn't it win again though it seems a significant percentage voted on false premises ? I am baffled at this course UK is on, whether one voted for Brexit or not, enough of vote was based on false premises to indicate a new vote needed.
The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries. Those EU immigrants ( already in the country are not going to be sent home wherever they originate from, that was never an option).

"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?

Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.

Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:03 pm
  #24518  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries.
And you - repeatedly - castigate anybody who posits a "the vote was about" on which you don't agree.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
It's nearly half time, apparently.

Last edited by Red Eric; Nov 29th 2017 at 9:07 pm.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:18 pm
  #24519  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries. Those EU immigrants ( already in the country are not going to be sent home wherever they originate from, that was never an option).

"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?

Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.

Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
Nope - the vote was to stop immigration and send the foreigners home.

And I have exactly as much evidence for that as you have for what you said.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:24 pm
  #24520  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The vote was for controlled immigration according to need not free movement from just 27 countries. Those EU immigrants ( already in the country are not going to be sent home wherever they originate from, that was never an option).

"Emotional desire"--to have your own country law supreme? Not in the future to be part of a type of Federation?--See the draft Constitution---abandoned but Lisbon Treaty more or less the same (discussed at length previously--!!)
Freedom to trade without EU restrictions?

Money--As others have said above--the so-called divorce bill debt will be spread. Savings in the future--the NHS was never a 'promise' just an example as to where extra money could be spent.

Negotiations have hardly started. We have to give time to see how they will progress before all the negative talk.
...and the money for the NHS was THE reason that four people I know (two nurses and their husbands) voted to leave. They changed their minds a few days after the vote. I have no reason to believe that there aren't many more like them.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:26 pm
  #24521  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric;12391342[B
] And you - repeatedly - castigate anybody who posits a "the vote was about" on which you don't agree.


[/B]It's nearly half time, apparently.
Are you saying the Remainers don't do also this?

It is many Remainers (on this Forum) who repeatedly post "the vote was about"---giving their own opinion, generally adding words like 'unintelligent', xenophobic, uneducated etc. etc.

I think an open mind is necessary as to why individuals voted either remain or leave or didn't vote at all.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:30 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
...and the money for the NHS was THE reason that four people I know (two nurses and their husbands) voted to leave. They changed their minds a few days after the vote. I have no reason to believe that there aren't many more like them.
Four??---Yes I am sure there were many more, the voter numbers were in 'millions'!
We don't yet know how much extra money will or will not go to the NHS as a result of Brexit.
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:30 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

The vote was for staying in or leaving the EU. It was last year. It is done. When will you people give it up?
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Nope - the vote was to stop immigration and send the foreigners home.

And I have exactly as much evidence for that as you have for what you said.
I am quoting the official leave campaign.
Why did non-EU origin migrants vote in the same proportions? There is poll evidence of that!
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Old Nov 29th 2017, 9:37 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Are you saying the Remainers don't do also this?
No, clearly not.

I'm saying that you, who continually pick people up for doing something you don't like, are doing it yourself.

Just pointing it out in case you didn't realise.

/helpful
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