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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 27th 2017, 9:51 pm
  #24436  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Although the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservatives got us into this mess, there's the much wider culpability of the majority of MPs (including Labour) who don't want to engage on the Brexit issue, but hide behind the referendum mandate. There should be rising dissent at this stage, but they all keep parroting the line "we are leaving the EU". It's annoying!
I've said this before, but the Labour party (under Corbyn's control,finally!) are waiting for the Tories to hang themselves,.

Once it becomes impossible to get any deal, let alone the "best possible deal" which might well be before Christmas, and once the bulk of the Tories realise this, Labour will win the inevitable election and then, again finally, we will leave the EU and join EFTA.

Job done. Nothing gained.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 8:14 am
  #24437  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum




Except :
Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Job done. Nothing gained.
Bit of a win getting rid of a noxious government for a couple of terms at least, wouldn't you say?
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 9:57 am
  #24438  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Although the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservatives got us into this mess, there's the much wider culpability of the majority of MPs (including Labour) who don't want to engage on the Brexit issue, but hide behind the referendum mandate. There should be rising dissent at this stage, but they all keep parroting the line "we are leaving the EU". It's annoying!
Trouble is there is no discernible Labour Party policy on BREXIT on which to rally.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 10:10 am
  #24439  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I've said this before, but the Labour party (under Corbyn's control,finally!) are waiting for the Tories to hang themselves,.

Once it becomes impossible to get any deal, let alone the "best possible deal" which might well be before Christmas, and once the bulk of the Tories realise this, Labour will win the inevitable election and then, again finally, we will leave the EU and join EFTA.

Job done. Nothing gained.
I'm not so optimistic. I think every last Tory would be willing in drive the country off a cliff rather than risk their ultimate horror of a Corbyn government. And many won't regard 'no deal' as a cliff, but rather as a good adventure. So I don't see how the next election is going to come about?
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 10:15 am
  #24440  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
Trouble is there is no discernible Labour Party policy on BREXIT on which to rally.
Well, indeed, that is the trouble. Lib Dems have a clear Remain policy, but British voting philosophy is such that i they end up marginalised, even in these extreme times. As the chief doo dah would say, Sad!
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 10:38 am
  #24441  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Brexiteer solution to NI border problem (on Sky news)

''Just leave the border open and Ireland will see how the UK thrives and then will follow the UK out of EU ...''

After a good laugh, A.Bolton stopped the discussion.

Apart from the ''control our own borders'' not happening, any other problem with this one ?
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 11:04 am
  #24442  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Leave the border open and let NI integrate more closely with the Republic is the better solution. Britain's phobia of moving Europeans can be controlled on the 'mainland' (what is it we call our big island)?
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 11:08 am
  #24443  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Leave the border open and let NI integrate more closely with the Republic is the better solution. Britain's phobia of moving Europeans can be controlled on the 'mainland' (what is it we call our big island)?
You forget that Theresa's mate, Arlene, is not only keen to leave the EU, but has also said that nothing must make NI different to the rest of the UK.

Presumably, she ignores the fact that gay marriage is still banned there and the police carry guns.........
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 11:19 am
  #24444  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
You forget that Theresa's mate, Arlene, is not only keen to leave the EU, but has also said that nothing must make NI different to the rest of the UK.

Presumably, she ignores the fact that gay marriage is still banned there and the police carry guns.........
The NI are welcome to move back to the mainland if they prefer Britain to having an EU neighbour. I've always been in favour of a united Ireland, and this is a good opportunity to bring it about.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 11:23 am
  #24445  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The NI are welcome to move back to the mainland if they prefer Britain to having an EU neighbour. I've always been in favour of a united Ireland, and this is a good opportunity to bring it about.
Given another generation the Catholics will outnumber the prods anyway and the United Ireland parties will have a majority in the NI government.
When all the EU citizens have returned home we can offer the DUP supporters etc exile in England.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 11:33 am
  #24446  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Given another generation the Catholics will outnumber the prods anyway and the United Ireland parties will have a majority in the NI government.
When all the EU citizens have returned home we can offer the DUP supporters etc exile in England.
Sounds about right. As they say, be careful of what you wish for...
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 12:10 pm
  #24447  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Given another generation the Catholics will outnumber the prods anyway and the United Ireland parties will have a majority in the NI government.
When all the EU citizens have returned home we can offer the DUP supporters etc exile in England.
52% of Catholics favoured the union in 2011.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-28628245.html

So it's not a given that the higher birthrate will produce a vote for integration with Ireland.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 12:15 pm
  #24448  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The NI are welcome to move back to the mainland if they prefer Britain to having an EU neighbour. I've always been in favour of a united Ireland, and this is a good opportunity to bring it about.
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Given another generation the Catholics will outnumber the prods anyway and the United Ireland parties will have a majority in the NI government.
When all the EU citizens have returned home we can offer the DUP supporters etc exile in England.
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Sounds about right. As they say, be careful of what you wish for...
As an Irish republican, I should be rubbing my hands at this! But I'm not, because it's another opportunity for Westminster to dump on Ireland. In fact, this is already happening because Dublin has had the temerity to question Mother England's attitude to the border (and before the other nationals rail against my use of England, take an honest look at your influence over "British" decisions).

A few truths.
Not all catholics are nationalist or republicans, not all protestants are loyalists - despite generalized simplification by the press. He who generalises generally lies.
Not all republicans believe that this can be achieved without popular support, we have experience of the horrors of civil war.
Not all republicans wish to see the defeat of loyalists or the dismissal of their values, just the loss of their hegemony in a gerrymandered statelet.

... and for those who might, like certain politicians, feel that Ireland might follow the UK out of the EU, membership has given Ireland an identity and influence as never before. It has given it the strength to absorb a higher level of immigration than the UK with tolerance and a celebration of their culture. But more, far more than this - it has made Ireland a state within Europe, not just "that island off the coast of England". That genie will never go back into the bottle.

Bobby Sands quote "Our revenge will be the laughter of our children" is a positive vision of the future - Tiocfaidh ár lá is not a threat but a promise.
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 12:25 pm
  #24449  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Are you living in Ireland macliam?
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Old Nov 28th 2017, 12:44 pm
  #24450  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Are you living in Ireland macliam?
No, as per my tag I am a European export ...... I come from the pre-EU generation of emigrants who had to move away to build a career and built a life beyond the island. I worked over 30 years in the UK and am married to a Portuguese, so spend time there. So I am a European citizen, Irish by passport, but affected by Brexit because I have assets and family in the UK.

Although partition was always an undercurrent in my youth, most people in my area had many other things to worry about - being amongst the best educated in Europe but with few career opportunities. My grandfather fought in WW1 and then the civil war and there were loyalists, republicans and many who didn't really care within my family - like most others. I had one cousin a subaltern in the Irish army patrolling the border, whilst his own brother was smuggling guns and involved in shady dealings. Life is always more complicated than we are led to believe.
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