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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 26th 2017, 7:16 am
  #24376  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Just interested as you raised the subject to know where you are!!

The entire point regarding expats/migrants is that when they come to the UK they are not certain if they will stay/if they will return home/ how long they will stay/or come back again. If they can afford to go back etc.
A passport can be renounced and original nationality retrieved by most. (I have read difficult for those from Japan.)
They all have different circumstances just like UK/EU expats/migrants, why do you think non-EU are different?
You still do not understand.
I am not referring to migrants but their children, born in the UK, bought up, educated etc.
You constantly refer negatively to those of other religions,Muslims who do not integrate.
The failure to do so be they of EU national parentage, Islamic, Hindu, etc is one of the reasons for the brexit vote.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 7:21 am
  #24377  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Official talks cannot take place until Brexit actually happens. (Canada has said it will be ready immediately on Brexit).
Obviously the EU will take advantage of this to get deals done first, Chancellor Merkel in particular has been talking of making moves towards China and India. (I have mentioned frequently about the failed delegations this year)!
Still living in ignorance I see.
Ignorant of the fact that trade deal or no trade deal the UK will always be a minor player in the changing economic world.
Markets Germany continues to leave us in the dust.
Who will you find to blame after brexit .
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 7:22 am
  #24378  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You still do not understand.
I am not referring to migrants but their children, born in the UK, bought up, educated etc.
You constantly refer negatively to those of other religions,Muslims who do not integrate.
The failure to do so be they of EU national parentage, Islamic, Hindu, etc is one of the reasons for the brexit vote.
That last sentence - is that you saying that or you saying that Bipat says that?
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 8:31 am
  #24379  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You still do not understand.
I am not referring to migrants but their children, born in the UK, bought up, educated etc.
You constantly refer negatively to those of other religions,Muslims who do not integrate.
The failure to do so be they of EU national parentage, Islamic, Hindu, etc is one of the reasons for the brexit vote.
EMR you do not understand the complexity of human nature.
I have not constantly referred to those who do not integrate, just explained to you that there is a difference between those who live in 'ghettos', not mixing, disliking their fellow citizens of different religions and those who have links and love for their country of origin.

Isn't this the same for those on this forum and the reason for this forum?

As to children this will vary tremendously according to their names, the finances of their parents to travel back 'home', what they are taught at home etc. etc. Their connections with their country of origin, the languages spoken at home etc. etc. It will different in every household.
What is your objection to this???
It has nothing to do with integration in their country of residence.

What has this got to do with the Brexit vote?
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 9:12 am
  #24380  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
EMR you do not understand the complexity of human nature.
I have not constantly referred to those who do not integrate, just explained to you that there is a difference between those who live in 'ghettos', not mixing, disliking their fellow citizens of different religions and those who have links and love for their country of origin.

Isn't this the same for those on this forum and the reason for this forum?

As to children this will vary tremendously according to their names, the finances of their parents to travel back 'home', what they are taught at home etc. etc. Their connections with their country of origin, the languages spoken at home etc. etc. It will different in every household.
What is your objection to this???
It has nothing to do with integration in their country of residence.

What has this got to do with the Brexit vote?
Certainly there is a spectrum of integration and 'ghetto-isation'. It's the folks that at the ghetto end that can be a problem, especially when their thinking runs counter to the country as a whole.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 10:19 am
  #24381  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
Now the fat's in the fire...
Brexit: Ireland 'to play tough' over talks - commissioner - BBC News
Trade talks by Christmas........ Remind me, how long did 'the troubles & peace process' last??? OK Arlene dear, time for your speech, screaming NEVER! NEVER!! NEVER!!!
Just another glaring example of how ill-thought-out this whole Eurosceptic pantomime has been.

Never mind the 'money', or citizens' rights, squaring this particular circle is going to be the biggest challenge of them all.

Nice one, Cameron, how's your memoirs coming along in the garden shed ?
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 11:32 am
  #24382  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
EMR you do not understand the complexity of human nature.
I have not constantly referred to those who do not integrate, just explained to you that there is a difference between those who live in 'ghettos', not mixing, disliking their fellow citizens of different religions and those who have links and love for their country of origin.

Isn't this the same for those on this forum and the reason for this forum?

As to children this will vary tremendously according to their names, the finances of their parents to travel back 'home', what they are taught at home etc. etc. Their connections with their country of origin, the languages spoken at home etc. etc. It will different in every household.
What is your objection to this???
It has nothing to do with integration in their country of residence.

What has this got to do with the Brexit vote?
Are you saying the people living in 'ghettos' do not have links and love for their country of origin ? If so, by your definition, you're a Remainer ...
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 11:44 am
  #24383  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Are you saying the people living in 'ghettos' do not have links and love for their country of origin ? If so, by your definition, you're a Remainer ...
No I am not saying that if you read my post. The point in discussion was integration/or not.

I was pointing out that living in a ghetto AND REFUSING to integrate was not the same as affection for the country of origin whether first or subsequent generation of expats/migrants.

The OP is of the opinion that second and subsequent generations should not have connections with their country of origin I was disagreeing with this.

What is your point about being a 'Remainer'?
Connections with country of origin doesn't mean 'free movement' to and fro, usually unless dual nationality and the OP disagrees with dual nationality.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 5:29 pm
  #24384  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

The Director General of the World Trade Organization confirms that Britain does not need a trade deal with the EU.

There is absolutely nothing to fear from refusing to pay a mad bill and walking away from these disgusting Eurocrat parasites!

http://www.westmonster.com/wto-chief-britain-will-be-fine-…


Roberto Azevedo said: “About half of the UK’s trade is already on WTO terms – with the US, China and several large emerging nations where the EU doesn’t have trade agreements.

“So it’s not the end of the world if the UK trades under WTO rules with the EU. If you don’t have a fully functioning FTA with the EU, there could be rigidities and costs – but it’s not like trade between the UK and EU is going to stop. There will be an impact, but I suppose it is perfectly manageable.”

“I think Britain has an opportunity, a chance to contribute in a way that is consistent with the quality of your professionals and the size and importance of your economy.”

So the Brexit doomsayers are wrong – it’s not essential that Britain gets a trade deal and shells out billions to the EU in order to pay for it. The UK can keep the money and invest in its own infrastructure and crack on with arranging trade deals around the world.

Last edited by Dick Dasterdly; Nov 26th 2017 at 5:34 pm.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 5:38 pm
  #24385  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
"Expected" by numerous posters on this Forum. They should be totally 'integrated'--forget their country of origin etc. etc.---
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Brexiteers you mean ?
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
what you don't see is the point I was making, I have been arguing that expats/migrants in the UK have the 'right' to not forget their country of origin since I started posting on this Forum, and with those who are now 'remainers'.
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Can't see any remainer being against ''not forgetting your country of origin'' (did I say that right ? )
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What I haven't 'spelled out' in these last posts is the different attitude regarding migrants to and from EU countries and non-EU migrants many of these also had 'free movement' post war. Any suggestion that the latter had links or loyalty to their country of origin has been usually condemned by many 'ultra-remainers'.
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Never noticed ... Any proof of that allegation ?
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
I'm sorry Bipat but you cannot go around accusing people and then not bother to back up your accusation.
I'm pretty sure remainers are NOT demanding that migrants forget their country of origin and have never noticed EMR saying so.
I think you are confusing remainers and brexiteers here !

So generally, any proof of your accusation ?????
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I am not making an "accusation" just remembering many previous discussions on --immigration--Muslims--integration etc, when others (especially EMR) have argued that non-EU people coming to the UK should not think back to their country of origin but throw themselves totally into 'British' life etc.

My point here is that the views regarding EU citizens are different.
Where did that point come from ?

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
"Allegation"-- for heavens sake, it was a view held by some, that migrants in UK should see themselves as totally British and forget their past---hardly worth your getting so worked up over it!!
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
EMR not for the first time your memory is short---our extensive discussions were nothing to do with food etc. I pointed out that first generation migrants would have dual loyalties etc. You argued that they didn't/shouldn't. I will find the posts!!
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I have not constantly referred to those who do not integrate, just explained to you that there is a difference between those who live in 'ghettos', not mixing, disliking their fellow citizens of different religions and those who have links and love for their country of origin.

The only way I can read this is that those living in ghettos do not have links and love for their country of origin. Or do you mean a difference which you did not explain ???

Isn't this the same for those on this forum and the reason for this forum?
Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Are you saying the people living in 'ghettos' do not have links and love for their country of origin ? If so, by your definition, you're a Remainer ...
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
No I am not saying that if you read my post. The point in discussion was integration/or not.

The point of discussion was FORGETTING you country of origin !

I was pointing out that living in a ghetto AND REFUSING to integrate was not the same as affection for the country of origin whether first or subsequent generation of expats/migrants.

And this is just blah blah ...


What is your point about being a 'Remainer'?

See your post 084


Connections with country of origin doesn't mean 'free movement' to and fro, usually unless dual nationality and the OP disagrees with dual nationality

and more blah blah ....
After all that, please remember the people living in 'ghetto's' probably don't live their out of their own will. Not everyone can afford to buy a house or live in an expensive rental ! And it's not only migrants living in 'ghetto's' !
And I am still not sure what it is exactly you accuse them of ?

Sorry about the multi-quoting Erik ... had to get it all in line
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 5:56 pm
  #24386  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Eh up - Dick's back. Things must be going badly if he's been switched back to the Brexit contract.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 5:57 pm
  #24387  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by iano View Post
Just another glaring example of how ill-thought-out this whole Eurosceptic pantomime has been.

Never mind the 'money', or citizens' rights, squaring this particular circle is going to be the biggest challenge of them all.

Nice one, Cameron, how's your memoirs coming along in the garden shed ?
C'mon Iano, that assumes people would buy them.... A luminary genius couldn't shift them. But this whole thing reminded me of the tale of PM Gladstone who spent his declining years trying to guess the answer to The Irish Question; unfortunately, whenever he was getting close, the Irish secretly changed the question........
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 6:32 pm
  #24388  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Where did that point come from ?

After all that, please remember the people living in 'ghetto's' probably don't live their out of their own will. Not everyone can afford to buy a house or live in an expensive rental ! And it's not only migrants living in 'ghetto's' !
And I am still not sure what it is exactly you accuse them of ?

Sorry about the multi-quoting Erik ... had to get it all in line
Annetje, possibly you don't realise but what we are talking about by "ghettos" in the UK are areas where a minority of people of one religion live deliberately to separate themselves from the rest of UK society, have ther own schools etc. marry within their own group and not only refuse to mix with others but condemn other parts of society as not good. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford housing.

The majority of expats/migrants do not live in this way.


We are of the same mind! ---what I am trying to express is the view that migrants/expats those of non-EU origin as my family is--have ties to their country of origin and there is nothing wrong with this!
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 6:40 pm
  #24389  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Eh up - Dick's back. Things must be going badly if he's been switched back to the Brexit contract.
Westmonster... Again?

Reminds me of Rocky & Bullwinkle


Last edited by amideislas; Nov 26th 2017 at 6:43 pm.
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Old Nov 26th 2017, 7:03 pm
  #24390  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
The Director General of the World Trade Organization confirms that Britain does not need a trade deal with the EU.

There is absolutely nothing to fear from refusing to pay a mad bill and walking away from these disgusting Eurocrat parasites!

http://www.westmonster.com/wto-chief...ll-be-fine-…


Roberto Azevedo said: “About half of the UK’s trade is already on WTO terms – with the US, China and several large emerging nations where the EU doesn’t have trade agreements.

“So it’s not the end of the world if the UK trades under WTO rules with the EU. If you don’t have a fully functioning FTA with the EU, there could be rigidities and costs – but it’s not like trade between the UK and EU is going to stop. There will be an impact, but I suppose it is perfectly manageable.”

“I think Britain has an opportunity, a chance to contribute in a way that is consistent with the quality of your professionals and the size and importance of your economy.”

So the Brexit doomsayers are wrong – it’s not essential that Britain gets a trade deal and shells out billions to the EU in order to pay for it. The UK can keep the money and invest in its own infrastructure and crack on with arranging trade deals around the world.
Or, to put it another way, it's OK for the UK to welch on it's responsibilities, renege on agreements and leave its neighbours in the sh*t...... and the rest of the world will line up to extend the hand of friendship to an isolated ex-colonial power who have ideas above their budget.

Good luck with that.
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