British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Nov 23rd 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388036)
"Expected" by numerous posters on this Forum. They should be totally 'integrated'--forget their country of origin etc. etc.---


Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12388038)
Brexiteers you mean ?

Exactly, Annetje.


Jeeeez. :thumbdown: Sorry Bipat but you're using exactly the sort of tosh you claim to despise there.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for anybody who has a clear right to reside to also adopt the nationality of their country of residence,

And perfectly good reasons, even within the sphere of EU member states, not to. As you should know very well know as an avid follower of these discussions.

Novocastrian Nov 23rd 2017 9:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Look, can we all just agree that the UK is f***ed if the present government stays in power?

They are incoherent and incompetent and after 17 months, still haven't a clue about the "best possible deal". Except as a pathetic slogan designed to hide and confuse how f***king incompetent they really are.

I live for half the year in the UK, unlike most of the posters on this thread, so have a direct interest in the UK's future.

It's dire. Very dire.

Bipat Nov 23rd 2017 9:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12388042)
Exactly, Annetje.


Jeeeez. :thumbdown: Sorry Bipat but you're using exactly the sort of tosh you claim to despise there.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for anybody who has a clear right to reside to also adopt the nationality of their country of residence,

And perfectly good reasons, even within the sphere of EU member states, not to. As you should know very well know as an avid follower of these discussions.

I agree---but not "tosh"---what you don't see is the point I was making, I have been arguing that expats/migrants in the UK have the 'right' to not forget their country of origin since I started posting on this Forum, and with those who are now 'remainers'.

But why if you are so fond of your chosen country not become a citizen?

Annetje Nov 23rd 2017 9:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388058)
I agree---but not "tosh"---what you don't see is the point I was making, I have been arguing that expats/migrants in the UK have the 'right' to not forget their country of origin since I started posting on this Forum, and with those who are now 'remainers'.

But why if you are so fond of your chosen country not become a citizen?

No doubt you won that argument. Can't see any remainer being against ''not forgetting your country of origin'' (did I say that right ? :confused: )

Garbatellamike Nov 23rd 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12388053)
Look, can we all just agree that the UK is f***ed if the present government stays in power?

Yes - I think so

Mind you we will probably be even more f***ed if the present opposition take over

Bipat Nov 23rd 2017 9:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12388066)
No doubt you won that argument. Can't see any remainer being against ''not forgetting your country of origin'' (did I say that right ? :confused: )

What I haven't 'spelled out' in these last posts is the different attitude regarding migrants to and from EU countries and non-EU migrants many of these also had 'free movement' post war. Any suggestion that the latter had links or loyalty to their country of origin has been usually condemned by many 'ultra-remainers'.

Annetje Nov 23rd 2017 9:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388084)
What I haven't 'spelled out' in these last posts is the different attitude regarding migrants to and from EU countries and non-EU migrants many of these also had 'free movement' post war. Any suggestion that the latter had links or loyalty to their country of origin has been usually condemned by many 'ultra-remainers'.

Never noticed ... Any proof of that allegation ?

GeniB Nov 23rd 2017 9:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12388004)
These are fundamental economic principles, not "airy fairy ideas".

Did you see the news tonight surrounding the budget.? Did you hear the comments made by senior officials. ? 10 yRS before there can be any hope of even returning to pre.recession figures. Peoples wages frozen. The UK in the worst economic mess since the 1950's... Where are you getting your personal economic miracle from?

Annetje Nov 23rd 2017 10:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12388091)
Did you see the news tonight surrounding the budget.? Did you hear the comments made by senior officials. ? 10 yRS before there can be any hope of even returning to pre.recession figures. Peoples wages frozen. The UK in the worst economic mess since the 1950's... Where are you getting your personal economic miracle from?

Fundamental economic principles = throwing out foreigners and all problems are solved.

GeniB Nov 23rd 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388058)
I agree---but not "tosh"---what you don't see is the point I was making, I have been arguing that expats/migrants in the UK have the 'right' to not forget their country of origin since I started posting on this Forum, and with those who are now 'remainers'.

But why if you are so fond of your chosen country not become a citizen?

You are mixing up ex-pats with migrants again. A migrant has an intention to remain in the country to which he/she has migrated to. An ex-pat (most likely) moves to a country on a temporary basis, to work or yes even when retired.,Many do not wish to remain for an extended period ,or end their lives in the country they have chosen to live,or work ,or retire too.
The reasons for being concerned in the Brexit talks however have to do with the agreements set out by the UK when they joined the EU. Those agreements do affect ex-pats. whether it be about medical and social issues,or the right to remain.in the EU country they have chosen to either work in or retire to.

It 's not as simple as ' If you love it so much why don't you become a citizen'

Bipat Nov 23rd 2017 10:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12388095)
You are mixing up ex-pats with migrants again. A migrant has an intention to remain in the country to which he/she has migrated to. An ex-pat (most likely) moves to a country on a temporary basis, to work or yes even when retired.,Many do not wish to remain for an extended period ,or end their lives in the country they have chosen to live,or work in.
The reasons for being concerned in the Brexit talks however have to do with the agreements set out by the UK when they joined the EU. Those agreements do affect ex-pats. whether it be about medical and social issues,or the right to remain.in the EU country they have chosen to either work in or retire to.

It 's not as simple as ' If you love it so much why don't you become a citizen'

Not mixing up--you are assuming a difference and proving my point.
Many of what you call "migrants" come without any intention of spending their entire lives in the UK, but end up staying, many go 'home', Just as I presume British going to other countries do the same.

As I said above that those UK expats/migrants to EU countries obviously are concerned with post Brexit arrangements but as many posters on here go on and on about how wonderful are the countries they are 'expat-ing' in compared with the UK, why not become citizens?

Annetje Nov 23rd 2017 10:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388084)
What I haven't 'spelled out' in these last posts is the different attitude regarding migrants to and from EU countries and non-EU migrants many of these also had 'free movement' post war. Any suggestion that the latter had links or loyalty to their country of origin has been usually condemned by many 'ultra-remainers'.


Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12388090)
Never noticed ... Any proof of that allegation ?

?????

Bipat Nov 23rd 2017 11:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12388124)
?????

Not going to trawl through the posts! I was speaking generally not just this thread.
I think EMR is the most prolific! Where is he?? I have been expecting him to be 'shouting down' my above posts!:lol::lol:

Lion in Winter Nov 24th 2017 3:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Why are people indignant that they cannot share in the benefits of the EU after leaving the EU?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...als-of-culture

It would have been worth millions to one of these British cities. But now they are no longer eligible - and some wish to moan about it.

Red Eric Nov 24th 2017 6:36 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12388104)
As I said above that those UK expats/migrants to EU countries obviously are concerned with post Brexit arrangements but as many posters on here go on and on about how wonderful are the countries they are 'expat-ing' in compared with the UK, why not become citizens?

Because, in the context of what occasioned this little diversion, it is not a solution. And if you had been paying attention, you would know precisely why.

There are, for example, EU citizens who took out UK citizenship when there was absolutely no need to (presumably because they thought it was "the right thing to do", or that it made them more "integrated" or because of something somebody said to them or whatever) and who, in fact, have managed to reduce the rights they would have enjoyed had they not done so and thus cause themselves no end of unnecessary grief which is now unresolvable.

A UK citizen resident in another EU country and deciding to take out citizenship now would be rash in the extreme. We need to know exactly how the land lies before we can make a rational decision as to whether that would be the best thing to do.

Sentiment, attachments, loyalty, integration, how brilliant the country I live in is etc simply don't enter into it. Nor does anything allegedly said by somebody who happened to vote the same way as me in a referendum.

I was brought up as a perfectly well-integrated foreigner in New Zealand (the last few years there coinciding with the economic and political upheaval which ensued when the UK unceremoniously dumped its Commonwealth partners in favour of joining the EEC as it happens ;) but that's a by-the-bye), without ever feeling the need to become a NZ citizen (and nor was it expected of me). Similarly, there's no earthly need as yet for me to take out the citizenship of the country I now live in. It doesn't affect the way I lead my life here one iota. The day I feel it's beneficial or desirable, I'll not hesitate to do it, though.


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