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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 23rd 2017, 2:24 pm
  #24241  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Should help with all those traffic jams, too, if people can't afford cars.

See? You just have to think positively.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 2:29 pm
  #24242  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Should help with all those traffic jams, too, if people can't afford cars.

See? You just have to think positively.
There'd be benefits to the environment if they reduce their energy consumption. And more food to go round where it's needed most. Extra space in the bank vaults for people who really need it, too, once they've got rid of their piddly little surpluses.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 3:05 pm
  #24243  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
... Can I please suggest some quiet reading...
UK economy faces 'longest fall in living standards in 60 years' - BBC News
Then
go to the IFS site & take in their data. It looks very grim indeed. Oh yes, and does anyone know where all those Clever B****** who've repeatedly told us this couldn't possibly happen have suddenly disappeared to...??? Now the DEPRESSION begins.

Incomes are squeezed when there is a surplus of labour and employers do not need to compete for workers - the supply of labour exceeds the demand.

Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries.

Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise.

This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products.

This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 3:28 pm
  #24244  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
...impoverished Europeans...
I see what you did there
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 3:56 pm
  #24245  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Incomes are squeezed when there is a surplus of labour and employers do not need to compete for workers - the supply of labour exceeds the demand.

Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries.

Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise.

This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products.

This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest.
Hmmmm, "So sir, you are limping badly. Well I choose not to think it is because you are wearing the wrong size shoes, but fall back on my theory that it's because you have too many toes. Therefore I suggest we amputate your toes. Yes, it will be uncomfortable and you might take a long time to walk again, but, in my view it's the only answer to your problem..."
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:12 pm
  #24246  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
Yep I thinks that's probably right.

I tend to think that he Baby Boomers have broken the international system and that, therefore, the coming generation will be significantly poorer than the current generation and there are going to be some real tensions because of that fact.

The future has been mortgaged and there doesn't appear to be a way out in sight.
Our adult children are in the same line of work as ourselves, their standards of living in many ways are lower than ours at the same age, it has nothing to do with Brexit.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:17 pm
  #24247  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Our adult children are in the same line of work as ourselves, their standards of living in many ways are lower than ours at the same age, it has nothing to do with Brexit.
I agree 100% - it was this way before BREXIT - you could argue that BREXIT MIGHT exacerbate the issue somewhat but it is not the root cause .
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:25 pm
  #24248  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Incomes are squeezed when there is a surplus of labour and employers do not need to compete for workers - the supply of labour exceeds the demand.

Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries.

Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise.

This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products.

This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest.

Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake.

And "incentivise" isn't actually a word.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:33 pm
  #24249  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake.

And "incentivise" isn't actually a word.
Yes, far too simplistic. There is some wage compression in lower skilled employment (due to EU workers) but there are also skills gaps and 'willingness' gaps. And if wage inflation leads to greater automation, then there will be further economic drag through increased unemployment.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:34 pm
  #24250  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike View Post
I agree 100% - it was this way before BREXIT - you could argue that BREXIT MIGHT exacerbate the issue somewhat but it is not the root cause .
Take a patient in a weakened condition and rough him up a bit. That should help.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:41 pm
  #24251  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, far too simplistic. There is some wage compression in lower skilled employment (due to EU workers) but there are also skills gaps and 'willingness' gaps. And if wage inflation leads to greater automation, then there will be further economic drag through increased unemployment.
And industries can, and do, simply take or send their jobs elsewhere.

And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:48 pm
  #24252  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And industries can, and do, simply take or send their jobs elsewhere.

And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that.
Indeed. And those EU workers will rapidly be substituted by workers from other parts of the world which a Britain "in control of its borders" will grant visas to... perhaps workers who aren't 'encumbered' by European standards. A step backwards towards an even more polarised society.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:51 pm
  #24253  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake.

And "incentivise" isn't actually a word.
It isn't?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...on/incentivize

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/incentivise

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...sh/incentivize

Does this passive-aggressive pedantry make you feel better when posting on a forum?
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 4:55 pm
  #24254  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And industries can, and do, simply take or send their jobs elsewhere.

And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that.
Industries also pay more when they can't obtain workers, undertake product substitution to less labour intensive products, or invest in automation, thereby aiding the UK's dismal productivity figures.

To suggest that opening the reserve pool of labour to tens of millions of poorer people from other countries has no impact on UK wages is bewildering blindness.
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 5:04 pm
  #24255  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Take a patient in a weakened condition and rough him up a bit. That should help.
I wouldn't have thought so but will be guided by you in this
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